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One strut kites - which the lightest of them all?

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Hansen Design
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Re: One strut kites - which the lightest of them all?

Postby Hansen Design » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:59 am

Very difficult to build a 9sqm no-strut inflatable for much under 2kg using conventional LE, canopy and bladder materials. Add a center strut at .25 - .5kg depending on C/L chord. The only way to cut the weight substantially is alternative materials and/or bladderless construction. Weight/sqm progressively drops as kites get larger unless additional struts are added.

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Re: One strut kites - which the lightest of them all?

Postby Greenturtle » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:32 am

I would hazard a guess that BRM is now producing the lightest 1 strut kites by a decent margin, then airush maybe.

One hitch with comparing weights between brands is that one “12m”may be significantly larger or smaller in actuality than the other brands “12m” when layed out together and compared, so that might be taken into consideration, good luck with all that though

I can offer this, that a 12m flite and a 12m solo are the same size laid out one on the other, and the three-strut kite is actually the lighter kite in this case....

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Re: One strut kites - which the lightest of them all?

Postby gbrungra » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:44 am

So the ideal database would have weight and measured area of each kite? Projected area is tougher to measure, so we just have to take the manufacturers' word for it?

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Re: One strut kites - which the lightest of them all?

Postby Peert » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:35 am

gbrungra wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:44 am
So the ideal database would have weight and measured area of each kite? Projected area is tougher to measure, so we just have to take the manufacturers' word for it?
Measure projected area:
Add a scale. Ad 0,5 meter of visible painters tape on the centre of canopy. Preferably in X and Y axis.
Fly the kite.
Make a picture perpendicular to the kite surface.
On a PC; project a grid, scale it (or the picture) to fit the painters tape scale. Count squares (and halves etc.) to get the projected surface area.

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Re: One strut kites - which the lightest of them all?

Postby ronnie » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:30 pm

The photo sequence at the bottom of this index page shows the weights of both the 0 strut and 1 strut Cloud D kites.

http://boardridingmaui.com/index.html

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Re: One strut kites - which the lightest of them all?

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:54 pm

gbrungra wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:44 am
So the ideal database would have weight and measured area of each kite? Projected area is tougher to measure, so we just have to take the manufacturers' word for it?

Hmmm, more data is often better, but in this respect not really IMO :roll:

If you have the flat area, that is just fine.

The camber and design means A LOT MORE than both flat area and projected area, thus no reason to go into too difficult measurements.

Getting weights of specific kites should be done by us users, and never take the brands own numbers for correct (eventhough they might be) :wink:

8) Peter

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Re: One strut kites - which the lightest of them all?

Postby herbert » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:20 pm

Agree with Peter...exact precise area measurement are not so important. And weigh the kites to be certain. I have weighed my Clouds when new and the weights have generally been a 10 to 50 grams less than those listed on the website. I used my 10.4D yesterday and it is still damp and a little sandy. I just weighed it at 1.954 kg (as compared to 1.93 kg listed in the table on the first page of this thread). Anyway, I have found them to be pretty accurate.

I had my hands on (and flew) the single strut Cloud D (ie. the D_1). It is the same D kite, just with a single strut added. No extra valves or tubes or connectors as with other kites' struts....plus it was with smallest diameter center strut I have seen. I didn't weigh the kite, but given those two factors, it is quite certain that far and away the Cloud D_1 is the lightest single strut lei kite of them all.

But that doesn't answer the question RalfsB really has...Which is the lightest of them all ...that I can buy in Europe?

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Re: One strut kites - which the lightest of them all?

Postby jakemoore » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:16 pm

herbert wrote: e. I used my 10.4D yesterday .......
I had my hands on (and flew) the single strut Cloud D (ie. the D_1).

Did the strut make a difference?

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Re: One strut kites - which the lightest of them all?

Postby Dwight » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:21 pm

RalfsB wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:38 pm
Dwight wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:27 pm
Both one struts were wonderful for foiling. Much preferred over no strut, but those two one struts were very different in how they behaved as the wind increased.
Can you elaborate on the behavior and also mention which brands they were? I absolutely agree this is important.
Ok, I’ll give you the long version of my search for the ultimate foiling kite.

I flew gong strutless kites for one season. I had 12,9,6 sizes, I knew them well. Awesome foiling kite. But, I got tired of relaunch issues when water got trapped between the leading edge and canopy. I could ride with confidence, in less wind than nearly everyone. They also lost steering input when depowered. Upper range limited.

I tried a friends single strut liquid force several times. 2016 model I think. I formed the opinion single strut kites were the future of foiling, if you can afford the luxury of having a foiling specific quiver. The LF wasn’t perfect though. My gong had feather light steering and bar pressure. Pure joy to foil and feel the kite with finger light sensations and kite feedback. So...I wanted a kite like my gong, but with one strut. I waited...hoping gong would add one strut. They did not.

I had an opportunity to get a deal on the Naish boxer. I was worried it might be heavy. All the famous brands reinforce their kites to last many years, instead of just going for light. Gong had less reinforcements and simpler construction.

I bought the boxer and was very surprised it felt lighter flying than the LF by a lot, and felt similarly light as the gong no strut. Yet the boxer has plastic mini battens, so go figure. You can’t always go just by specs. Flying tells more in this case. It also had the very light finger tips bar pressure I love when foiling. The boxer stays in the air as well as the no strut and doesn’t surge in gusts like the no strut. I find myself feeling more relaxed pushing the light wind limits with the boxer, than the no strut. The bonus with all this, is way more upper range, so I don’t have to switch kites as often as I did with no strut.

The boxer is more resistant to flutter than the others I’ve flown. It has none most of the time.

I haven’t flown any other one struts.

FYI, the LF was 9m. My Boxer 9m, my Gong 9m

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Re: One strut kites - which the lightest of them all?

Postby herbert » Wed Jan 24, 2018 1:17 am

jakemoore wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:16 pm
herbert wrote: e. I used my 10.4D yesterday .......
I had my hands on (and flew) the single strut Cloud D (ie. the D_1).

Did the strut make a difference?
I found that the D_1 performs very, very closely to the D (strutless....now known as D_0, but the same a s D). I flew them back to back a number of times. Most of the time I could not discern a difference. Maybe at the extremes there is a difference, but subtle. By "extremes" I mean that extreme drift ability and the super fast turning ability. I think the D (strutless) has a very slight edge. I really don't know if going from strutless to one strut with another brand would be comparable in terms of minimal performance effect....the Cloud strut itself and the connection is wildly minimalistic, nothing like the other monos I have seen. With my experience, I find the D very easy to relaunch....almost regardless of the circumstances...and overall I prefer the strutless and recommend that to my friends. But I am sure that all these kite brands and models vary (way beyond the issue of sharing strutlessness or one strut construction) and people will understandably have different preferences. I do feel comfortable saying, if you want the Cloud experience but absolutely want a single strut, the D_1 will give you the Cloud experience.


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