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Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II

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L0KI
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Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II

Postby L0KI » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:06 pm

Kite companies buy lines from the same three or four manufacturers.
Kite lines stretch,.....all of them.
Most everybody who flies traction kites becomes aware of this during their first season.
Pre-stretching new lines (fronts and backs) is always recommended.
Switching the fronts and backs after ten sessions is always a good idea, to get them evened out.
Doing jumps/loops/tricks both ways helps keep the fronts even to each other.
I've had kites from Peter Lynn, Pro-Tools, Advance, Wipika, Flexifoil, Windwing, Ozone, Best, Liquid Force, Epic, Blade, Switch, Ocean Rodeo, Slingshot and North,...so linesets from years 2004 - 2011.
The only ones that were significantly better were the really heavy 800 lb fronts that Slingshot supply.
The worst sets were on North bars from 2009 and 2011.
Seems the kite companies are asking suppliers for improved linesets in 2012 and 2013.

Or you can buy Q-Power Line and make your own really fancy linesets.

L0KI
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Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II

Postby L0KI » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:27 pm

Dimitri M wrote:...we listen to our customers ideas and suggestions.
...the DEPOWER STRAP not grabbing because of teeth wearing down from a lot of powering & depowering.
After lots of emails back and forth, I was able to find a metal one.
Will be testing these on our last prototypes bars.
I never had problems with the old plastic buckle.
A friend of mine told me last night that he had a cracked metal part on his Ozone front line safety release assembly.
Metal does not always guarantee a stronger/better part.
Some of the toughest parts on the planet are made of plastic.

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alexeyga
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Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II

Postby alexeyga » Thu Jun 06, 2013 6:17 pm

Oldnbroken wrote:Kite companies buy lines from the same three or four manufacturers.
Kite lines stretch,.....all of them.
Most everybody who flies traction kites becomes aware of this during their first season.
Pre-stretching new lines (fronts and backs) is always recommended.
Switching the fronts and backs after ten sessions is always a good idea, to get them evened out.
Doing jumps/loops/tricks both ways helps keep the fronts even to each other.
I've had kites from Peter Lynn, Pro-Tools, Advance, Wipika, Flexifoil, Windwing, Ozone, Best, Liquid Force, Epic, Blade, Switch, Ocean Rodeo, Slingshot and North,...so linesets from years 2004 - 2011.
The only ones that were significantly better were the really heavy 800 lb fronts that Slingshot supply.
The worst sets were on North bars from 2009 and 2011.
Seems the kite companies are asking suppliers for improved linesets in 2012 and 2013.


Flew 2 Eclipse bars for 2007-2010 - zero stretch, zero adjustment needed (zero problems with the trimmer as well).
Flew 3 Ozone bars for 2010-2012 - zero stretch, zero adjustment needed.
Got 1 Epic bar in January 2013 - checked lines first thing after unpacking - perfectly equal. About a dozen outings later in May re-checked lines - 4" difference fronts to rears.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions. But like I've said, I'd rather have only one line set that I can count on, rather than a bunch of sets that live their-own lives on a sessions to session basis. In the age of disposable cars the key words are "Keep it stupid simple" and "care-free".

Oldnbroken wrote:A friend of mine told me last night that he had a cracked metal part on his Ozone front line safety release assembly.
Metal does not always guarantee a stronger/better part.
Some of the toughest parts on the planet are made of plastic.


That same buckle is all-metal on Cabrinha, Best and other bars... must be some kind of reasoning behind that? Right? Never heard about Cabrinha trimmer that quit working...

L0KI
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Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II

Postby L0KI » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:30 pm

I've gotten that kind of stretch fronts to rears on EVERY SET OF NEW LINES I've EVER gotten except the 800lb Slingshots, they stretched less on fronts.
That's why I swap front to backs after five to ten sessions.
Maybe some kite companies pre-stretch their line sets.
All normal linesets stretch after manufacture, some new stuff is being made now that is super low stretch.

Yup...
You can make really good parts and you can make really bad parts..out of metal.
You can make really good parts and you can make really bad parts..out of plastic.

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alexeyga
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Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II

Postby alexeyga » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:37 pm

Dimitri,
What is the reason behind 4G 10LTD not having the bulged strut end anymore? The struts on 4G also seem considerably thicker.
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GPV_0079 8.jpg

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Dimitri M
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Style: MY OWN STYLE :-)
Gear: SCREAMER 7/9/12/14 for Free Style. Not to forget the SCREAMER 10 LTD for my one go kite.
SURF 8 & 12 for the waves. RENEGADE 6.5 and 9 for all around kiting. And some times I use my son's JUNIOR PRO 4 when it blows 45+ for the waves.
Just try the EPICKITES and you will see for yourself.
Brand Affiliation: Owner of EPIC KITES
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Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II

Postby Dimitri M » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:57 pm

Guys all lines will stretch over a period of time. The only lines that I have not seen stretch much are the Q-Lines and the thicker ones (800lb) that SlingShot uses on their center lines. But again that thickness of the line gives a lot of drag when the kite is up in the air.
Any way, so you know all our lines are pre-stretched already and most of the kite companies do the same with their lines.
You also have to understand that it takes at least 15 to 20 hrs for all the lines to get settled and stretched. For example the bridles on your kite will stretch, the leader lines and the CL lines will stretch because of the knots. All these will stretch over a period of time. Also if some one does a lot of kite loop on one side, then that side will have some of line longer. It might not be the flying line but maybe the leader lines that got stretched. Same thing when you kite gets eaten by a wave. So in few words you need to take all these things into consideration.

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Dimitri M
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Posts: 4587
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 1998
Style: MY OWN STYLE :-)
Gear: SCREAMER 7/9/12/14 for Free Style. Not to forget the SCREAMER 10 LTD for my one go kite.
SURF 8 & 12 for the waves. RENEGADE 6.5 and 9 for all around kiting. And some times I use my son's JUNIOR PRO 4 when it blows 45+ for the waves.
Just try the EPICKITES and you will see for yourself.
Brand Affiliation: Owner of EPIC KITES
Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Contact:

Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II

Postby Dimitri M » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:12 pm

Dimitri,
What is the reason behind 4G 10LTD not having the bulged strut end anymore? The struts on 4G also seem considerably thicker.

Nice observation Mr.alexeyga. Well the reason is that I decided not to use "Viagra" any more for the 4G 10LTD. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
As I have mentioned before, the SCREAMER 10 LTD is our test pilot idea for the next generation of kites. So we always like to use the S10 ltd as our test kite and see what people think about the performance of the kite. People have to understand that the SCREAMER 10 LTD is not a real Screamer, it's a mix of a lot of of ideas that Momi and I have incorporated to make it what it is now. So for the 4G SCREAMER 10 LTD we decided this year to make the struts a little thicker and remove the Cone at the end of the struts. But this is only for the SCREAMER 10 LTD kite. As you will see all the other SCREAMERS still have the Cone Tips on the end of the struts.
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4G Screamer 7.9.12.14 .jpg

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Caesar
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Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II

Postby Caesar » Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:46 pm

Dimitri M wrote:
Dimitri,
What is the reason behind 4G 10LTD not having the bulged strut end anymore? The struts on 4G also seem considerably thicker.

Nice observation Mr.alexeyga. Well the reason is that I decided not to use "Viagra" any more for the 4G 10LTD. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
As I have mentioned before, the SCREAMER 10 LTD is our test pilot idea for the next generation of kites. So we always like to use the S10 ltd as our test kite and see what people think about the performance of the kite. People have to understand that the SCREAMER 10 LTD is not a real Screamer, it's a mix of a lot of of ideas that Momi and I have incorporated to make it what it is now. So for the 4G SCREAMER 10 LTD we decided this year to make the struts a little thicker and remove the Cone at the end of the struts. But this is only for the SCREAMER 10 LTD kite. As you will see all the other SCREAMERS still have the Cone Tips on the end of the struts.


Well, it was about time to admit there are problems with your strut material.
See below a photo of my second 3G 10 LTD kite. The struts of that kite needed fixing 6 times so far (and more to come if I would continue to use it). It is just a pity that your customers (in this case "me") have to pay for 'testing' your "test kites" as you described it above.
My 2 Cumbuco kite repair centers are laughing at me every time I see them again with that black kite.
You offered me a R$25.00 refund for the first strut repair. Please do me a favor and donate it on some sort of child charity. And please also donate the R$125.00 for the other 5 times I needed to pay for those other strut repairs, and the R$350.00 I spent for replacing your none-working CLs/QRs with 2 new and working North CL/Qrs, and the R$60.00 I needed to pay for labor for replacing the 3 valves which peeled off, and R$1,000.00 for the write-off of my first 3G 10m LTD because of the accident occured when I could not open your none-working QR, and whatever you believe is fair for the 1 night I had to stay in hospital (my private health insurance covered the affiliated charges) and 8 weeks out of water because of that injury.
Thank you kindly.

PS: Now you know why I am so pissed off with your Epic brand.
PPS: All you followers, please do me a favor and just forget to respond that you never had any problems with those issues I described. I did not make them up...

3GScreamer10LTD-struts.jpg

You might want to zoom in to have a closer look. And you will also see where the struts will be broken next.
Last edited by Caesar on Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dimitri M
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Posts: 4587
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 1998
Style: MY OWN STYLE :-)
Gear: SCREAMER 7/9/12/14 for Free Style. Not to forget the SCREAMER 10 LTD for my one go kite.
SURF 8 & 12 for the waves. RENEGADE 6.5 and 9 for all around kiting. And some times I use my son's JUNIOR PRO 4 when it blows 45+ for the waves.
Just try the EPICKITES and you will see for yourself.
Brand Affiliation: Owner of EPIC KITES
Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Contact:

Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II

Postby Dimitri M » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:11 pm

Hello Mr.Caesar, Once again I am sorry this has happened to you. I never had any of this happened to any of my SCREAMER 10 ltd kites and beleive me I do put them to the test. Plus I have had no one else complain about this except you. Even one of my EPIC dealers that you met when he was in Brazil told you the same story. So I don't know what else to tell you. All I know is that I did everything I could to help you but some how you were still unhappy. Any way good luck with your new kites and I wish you all the best with them. Let's see if you get the same support with them the way you did with EPIC.
:thumb:

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Caesar
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Re: Epic Kites 3rd Generation. 3G II

Postby Caesar » Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:19 pm

Dimitri M wrote:Hello Mr.Caesar, Once again I am sorry this has happened to you. I never had any of this happened to any of my SCREAMER 10 ltd kites and beleive me I do put them to the test. Plus I have had no one else complain about this except you. Even one of my EPIC dealers that you met when he was in Brazil told you the same story. So I don't know what else to tell you. All I know is that I did everything I could to help you but some how you were still unhappy. Any way good luck with your new kites and I wish you all the best with them. Let's see if you get the same support with them the way you did with EPIC.
:thumb:


Hi Dimitri,

The only support for all those issues I described and experienced was that you sent me 3 replacement valves for the 3 kites I purchased from you and which peeled off very quickly.
You told me that Blade would send me replacement QRs. Well, I'm still waiting for them and never received them.

Cheers
Caesar


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