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Quick release failure incident

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Lenze
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Postby Lenze » Wed May 21, 2003 11:33 am

rufus wrote:Hung,

what do you mean by
If safety is the most important issue in kiting, why some of us is moving away from this simple and most effective "not holding the bar" safety technique ???
The possibility of "not holding the bar" in an emergency situation would require "not being hooked in" at all, no? That would mean no use of the chicken loop at all?
I bet this is exactly what Hung meant. He's propably one of those who think "chicken loop" is just the right term for the device which is only being used by chickens...

There are places where you just cannot use two line kite. In Finland the wind is always so gusty that nobody is using two line kites - everyone are using four liners.. Small two line kites are only used in training..

Since the launching and landing are the most dangerous moments, I'd suggest that everyone just disconnect from the chicken loop at those moments. It's not that difficult to remember.

And keep those kites low when on/near land - parking the kite to zenith is so tempting... and so dangerous...

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Lenze

Hung
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Postby Hung » Wed May 21, 2003 2:08 pm

what do you mean by Quote:
If safety is the most important issue in kiting, why some of us is moving away from this simple and most effective "not holding the bar" safety technique ???



The possibility of "not holding the bar" in an emergency situation would require "not being hooked in" at all, no? That would mean no use of the chicken loop at all?
To use the safer "not holding the bar" safety technique, one should not be hooked-in in questionable situations (launching, landing, riding near shore or any other hard objects: rocks, reef, boats, etc., squalls/storms).

Any power control device can be used with this technique (chicken loop, trim strap, power bar, 3-D bar, etc.), just make sure flying the kite unhooked in questionable situations.

Hung.

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RickI
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Postby RickI » Wed May 21, 2003 2:20 pm

Hung wrote:
what do you mean by Quote:
If safety is the most important issue in kiting, why some of us is moving away from this simple and most effective "not holding the bar" safety technique ???



The possibility of "not holding the bar" in an emergency situation would require "not being hooked in" at all, no? That would mean no use of the chicken loop at all?
To use the safer "not holding the bar" safety technique, one should not be hooked-in in questionable situations (launching, landing, riding near shore or any other hard objects: rocks, reef, boats, etc., squalls/storms).

Any power control device can be used with this technique (chicken loop, trim strap, power bar, 3-D bar, etc.), just make sure flying the kite unhooked in questionable situations.

Hung.
Hung has it right. Probably half of the fatalities and serious kiteboarding injuries MAY NEVER HAVE HAPPENED, if people launch/landed "unhooked" or were simply holding their bar when everything hit the fan. Of course you need to mentally and physically rehearse "LETTING GO" of the bar but this is relatively simple and should improve the chances for a correct, early response to an emergency.

People don't want to sacrifice the higher wind performance and loss of wind range by launching "unhooked." Nor do they want to deal with the inconvenience of not hooking in and automatically depowering. This question is, does a percentage of our number wish to die or be seriously injured by NOT taking these simple precautions?

Regardless of your views on this issue, reality doesn't care. It will sling some among our number into grief and injury when things go wrong, simply because they are hooked in and either don't have time to react, react improperly, can't reach the quick release, the quick release doesn't function, you aren't using a mechanical release and can't unhook, etc. etc. It comes down to awareness of the hazards, the means of possibly avoiding them and choosing WHETHER TO BOTHER OR NOT. Choose well.

More about launching/landing "unhooked" at:

phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4872

phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9863

phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=5521

phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=9336

phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=4800
Last edited by RickI on Wed May 21, 2003 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Vega
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Postby Vega » Wed May 21, 2003 2:28 pm

One thing that I have always been worried about in kitesurfing (and kiting anywhere for that sake), is what happens if you get unconcius? Could happen in a crash after a jump?
U will then get draged, and the kite will probably do the deadspiral, with nobody to rescue you (even other kites wont be able to get to U).

I hunger for the day when we have some sort of dead-man-release, just like U have on a motorcrossbike. Off course thiswould make tricks like deadman and board offs more difficult, but I would love to give that up to have that safety... :thumb:

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Postby j0bo » Wed May 21, 2003 4:00 pm

I'm wishing LouLou a full recovery.

These quick release systems need to be sorted out for sure, I think companies should spend more time and money researching and developing saftey systems, as this seems to be one of the main reasons accidents happen.

these new plastic types all seem to be pretty crap, I know I use a metal snap shackle (the one that releases under load)with a metal ring on the end of me C/loop, not the standard munufactures one as they tend to stick on the snap shackle.

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Postby BigSmelly » Wed May 21, 2003 5:24 pm

5 out of 5 QR systems FAILED!!!! For me that says it all. This sport is dangerous, and we who participate in it need to acknowledge the potential consequences, weather they are exilirating adrenaline rushes, or death! Can we trust any single QR system to relly work? I mean, OK, so they are all tested, by the pros and designers. Take a kite up and pull the release, great it works. Hook it up to a high tension machine, or whatever they use to put a lot of stress on those things, and they work. But taking up a kite the correct size for the current conditions, and then getting hit gusts up to 2 times the recommended wind speed for use, is the ultimate test. OK, so one has to look at the condition of each QR induvidually. some might have been old, but I cannot believe that there was not at least one relatively new QR system on all 5 of those kiters, and even the older ones should work. Whats the point of calling them Quick Releases, if they do not release at all, never mind quickely.

I wish Loulou a full recovery, it really hurts me to read such tragic news.

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Lenze
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Postby Lenze » Wed May 21, 2003 5:55 pm

Yeah, they (safety device manufacturers) should use some kind of crash test dummies...

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Postby rb_stretch » Wed May 21, 2003 6:45 pm

Rick,

Took a look at the threads you posted and there was still a question mark over how do the majority of kitesurfers (who are more permanently hooked in) launch unhooked and then hook in before picking the board up.

For instance I use the wipika chicken loop with the plastic tube and no other harness line. Being relatively safety conscious (always wear a helmet and PFD) I would want to be safer on the launch front, but cannot figure out how I could possibly launch unhooked.

Has anyone come up with an answer?

RB

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Postby Hernan » Wed May 21, 2003 6:55 pm

Launching Unhooked is safer but you loose a lot of control of the kite, not only on the "hold the power" aspect but on how the kite flies aswell.
Controling the angle of attack of the wing is a must on high aspect 4 lines kites.
I believe that holding a release line in your hand when launching/landing is an acceptable (compromise) solution to this problem.

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rufus
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Postby rufus » Wed May 21, 2003 6:59 pm

To use the safer "not holding the bar" safety technique, one should not be hooked-in in questionable situations (launching, landing, riding near shore or any other hard objects: rocks, reef, boats, etc., squalls/storms).
Thanks Hung for throwing light on that issue. I thought you would suggest to stop using 4 line kites.
Simple misunderstanding then. :roll:

I totally agree with you on not being hooked-in while launching and landing. You can always do that unhooked, even with a Wichard system. There is usually enough time to use the fixed loop and your harness hook while hooking in or out of your Wichard. You want to make sure that you are not causing any problems by fiddling around with your Quick-Release while not looking at your kite.
Learn to do it by heart and without looking would probably solve that problem but what about other questionable situations?

With the chicken loop only one could at least unhook with one quick motion while riding. (I know. Not always. That's what brought us here in the first place...)
But what do you do if you use a Wichard? Unhooking from the Wichard usually means only one hand at the bar and Kite on the leash before you can even blink. :o
Hooking in the fixed loop before releasing the Wichard takes too long in my opinion and may cause a problem in the first place.

I am using a Wichard too, but I still have a weird feeling about being stapped to the kite and not being able to at least momentarily have my hands as the only connection between me and the bar whenever I feel like it.

Take care!
:wink: Rufus


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