Glucosamin & condroitin for elbow pain

[Slyde]

Dude I am afraid that the news may not be what you want to hear. I presume that you have tennis elbow also known as lateral epicondylitis. This is not an elbow joint problem (as has been pointed out) although without a full description of our symptoms it is difficult to give an accurate diagnosis. It is a problem adjacent to the elbow joint. Tennis elbow is the most likely thing and is common problem amongst kiters. It is an inflammatory condition of the origin of the extensor carpi radialis brevis muscle where it attaches to the bone at the side of the elbow. This muscle extends, or pulls back your wrist in conjunction with a series of similar muscles. Any activity which requires forcible contraction of this muscle can exacerbate the situation eg. power gripping (finger flexion is accompanied by wrist extension). The worst thing you can do is power gripping with the muscle at its longest length ie. with an extended elbow, so the comment about longer harness lines is frankly misinformed.
The natural history of tennis elbow is that it can take up to 3 years to resolve!! yes 3 years. Most settle in less time but if you have had 3 steroid injections you have a bad case and expect a long time to pass for it to recover.
Most of the advice you have had here is good with a few exceptions.
Chondroitin is used for joint cartilage problems as has been pointed out. It will confer you no benefit.
I suggest.
1. No more steroids. 3 injections is enough. You are obviously injuring the muscle more each time you get a little relief from the steroid. You will get skin and muscle atrophy from too much steroid.
2.Purchase and wear a forearm band as suggested. It goes around the forearm, not the elbow. and compresses the muscle origin a little to redistribute the load.
3. Gentle stretches as suggested with elbow extended and wrist flexed several times a day.
4. A Nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drug (naprosyn, ibuprofen or a raft of others on a regular basis for 6-8 weeks may help to start the healing process.
5. the worst... stop kiting until you start to make some progress ? 6-8+ weeks.
6. Once you are starting to improve you need to start a program of GENTLE strengthening of all your wrist extensors. Get professional help from a physio and allow some weeks to get strength up before stressing the muscle.
7.When you do start kiting set you harness lines so that you never allow your elbow to fully extend (straighten). Shorten your chicken loop and learn to kite with less travel. Use your legs more to control the power.

If your doctor is considering a plaster it tells me that he wants to force you into not using the elbow. This is a last resort and not recommended IMO as you will lose strength in a Plaster.
Dont consider surgery. It does not seem to improve the long term outcome when you analyse the big series in the literature.

You need to see a hand or upper limb surgeon for advice if you have had 3 steroid injections.
I think you will find the advice similar to mine as that is my game.
Save the money from the snake oil pills to spend on professional advice and physiotherapy.

BTW. Once the problem does start to resolve it can be reinjured so always warm up and stretch before kiting and if it starts to recur back off on it.

So theres the real oil on the situation!!

Slyde

[dt]

Slyde,

Thanks for the great info! A lot of my friends have kite induced tennis elbow and I will share your info with them.

Since shortening my chicken loop line over the last couple of months I have noticed much less elbow pain but I didn't realized the reduced pain could be because of the shortened chicken loop line.

Do you think the shape of the Rhino Rodeo bar takes some stress off the elbow? I have less elbow pain than a lot of my friends and am wondering if the Rodeo bars ergomomic bend helps. The ends of the bar curve towards the kiter so the wrist does not need to bend.

Doug

[ZenWind]

Although Slyde's prognosis is lengthy and bleak I wouldn't get too depressed about the injury. I know of at least ten local kiters who have all suffered from elbow pain related to kiting, and all of us have recovered in a very short amount of time by wearing the Velcro band I mentioned earlier. All of us lengthened our bar riding position, and none of us have re-encountered the problem after it was healed. The problem with the bar being too close to your body is that when you turn the kite your arm and elbow can end up behind your torso which cause lots of stress. So take the real world information for what it is worth, or not. Do as you please. My suggestion is try the band first and see what your own results are. You can always get more aggressive therapy later on if it doesn't work for you.
This is a very common injury in kiting, and everyone that I know who has had this problem has made a full recovery in a very short amount of time.

[Thatspec]

THIS FORUM IS FANTASTIC!
One could end up paying thousands of dollars for this information. It is not suprising that this particular thread is carrying on. We are all made of the same materials and are abusing them in similar fashion.

Many thanks to you all for these valuable tips, in particular Slyde, and DT, for the chicken loop length tips. Zenwind, I will definately be trying some forearm compression. This fully extended power gripping explains a lot. I have only one size kite and am frequently riding way overpowered (sheeted all the way out). My problems actually began with rock climbing 20 years ago which involves a lot of fully extended gripping. The idea of training the muscles in the oposite direction that caused the problem comes from Austrian ski coach Herman Gollner. At 61 years old this guy still leads 5.13+ sport climbs and climbs the nose route on El Capitan (30+ pitches) in a day. Thats a lot of pull ups!

Fabjet, and Chassan, I know how you are feeling as I was just out of kiting for 6 weeks due to a another soft tissue injury to my ankle (job related). My elbow problems came back almost immediately when I started kiting again. I'm afraid the best I can hope for is pain management as opposed to a cure. I just don't have the self discipline or time to fix it right.

Best of luck tp you all,
MT

[kiteboarder@pacbell.net]

"ZenWind" wrote:
Can't say that Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulfate have really done anything for me... I know people who have done the prolo-therapy with only temporary mild results. For elbow pain the best thing I have discovered is to get one of the wide Velcro bands for tennis elbow...

Apparently Gluco/Chond only works for about 50% of people. It didn't work for my knees, but Joint Advantage (http://www.drdavidwilliams.com) seems to help a lot (for me). Everybody's metabolism is different, so our reaction to cures is different too.

...really cut down on my sugar intake. It makes a huge difference. Also helps tremendously with sore muscles, and muscle recovery.

I recently read how diet can greatly effect your body's inflamatory response. Avoid highly glycemic foods (such as simple carbs like sugar & grains), & try to get sufficient essential fatty acids (sardines, grass-fed beef, avocados, etc.). I also read with disbelief that a dozen cherries has a greater anti-inflamatory effect than two Ibuprophen. I tested that the day after my back was injured, & it seemed to work (even more rapidly than the Ibuprophen).

[fabinhoj]

maybe a doctor would help you !


would you let your damage kite w/ a tailor, no, me too !! I prefer a kite repair specialist , do the same for you !

[kiteboarder@pacbell.net]

"Slyde" wrote:
Dont consider surgery. It does not seem to improve the long term outcome when you analyse the big series in the literature.

I think that is great advice for most situations, even some where (traditionally) surgery is considered "necessary". I just read a report comparing the long term outcome of angioplasty vs. exercise (when angioplasty has been deemed "necessary"). The surgical "victims" had nearly 3 times the rate of death & re-hospitalization compared to the exercisers (who also had better overall syptom reduction).

[ZenWind]

Mel

How long did it take for you to notice the Joint Advantage working for you? Thanks.

P.S. Where are you at in the healing process of your back?

[ced1]

Mel

I want to know about the cherries!!! You mean fresh ones?
Can you tell me where you read this and how many times have you used it?
Ced

[kiteboarder@pacbell.net]

"ZenWind" wrote:
Mel
How long did it take for you to notice the Joint Advantage working for you?

I can't really remember, but a lot of nutritional supplements take up to 3 months to take effect. I know I took the Gluco/Chond for at least that time, before giving up on it. I think the Joint Advantage started working faster.

Where are you at in the healing process of your back?

I think the bone must have been healed by a week or so ago, but now the muscles & tendons have to recover from the trauma AND from being overworked by supporting the damaged area. I think I'd be riding already, if I had a normal launch, but you need to be really on top of your game to ride at Cabrillo. Anyway, I'd lent my new kite to a buddy of mine (our local repair expert) to try, & the wind's been so bad that he hadn't even had a chance to try it as of last time I saw him on Saturday I didn't bother asking for it back. Plus I don't quite have my bar-activated release ready yet, & I promised myself I wouldn't ride again without one.