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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:29 pm 
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comments on my method welcome (please try to be constructive)

pump up kite
unwind line walking downwind of kite
place bar on ground upside down
put some sand on the bar to hold it still
walk back to the kite running all lines through your fingers removing twists and checking for nicks, knots or damage
attach centre lines to front of kite
attach outer lines to rear of kite
walk back to bar pick it up and visually check no twists
walk bar to side of the window and rotate 180 so its the right way up
walk back to kite and sand the tip ready for launch
get the bar and walk away from kite to tension the lines
visually check that the bar is the right way in your hands and no twists
launch the kite

plus points of this method
you are downwind during line rigging, it the kite moves in a gust you can grab it
if you misjudge the side of the window (or are to lazy to go all the way to the edge) the kite will not hot launch
zero chance of wrong connection if you do the visual checks


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:43 pm 
gaffer wrote:
comments on my method welcome (please try to be constructive) Hi Gaffer I'll use your (srandard method to illisrate the improvement in my method,,thanks)

pump up kite Same
unwind line walking downwind of kite unwind side wind for launch no dragging the beach for sticks
place bar on ground upside down Same
put some sand on the bar to hold it still no need for this
walk back to the kite running all lines through your fingers(this is the most time consuming frustrating part of kiting skip it no need for finger jiggling) removing twists and checking for nicks, knots or damage
attach centre lines to front of kite Do this before you unwrap the bar(first thing)
attach outer lines to rear of kite After you unwrap the bar walk both backlines to the kite and hook them up you are done
walk back to bar pick it up and visually check no twists Same
walk bar to side of the window and rotate 180 so its the right way up no need for this
walk back to kite and sand the tip ready for launch
get the bar and walk away from kite to tension the lines Same
visually check that the bar is the right way in your hands and no twists
launch the kite Same
plus points of this method
you are downwind during line rigging, it the kite moves in a gust you can grab it
if you misjudge the side of the window (or are to lazy to go all the way to the edge) the kite will not hot launch the kite can launch any time you tug on the lines
zero chance of wrong connection if you do the visual checkevery wrong line case sofar proves this is simply untrue[/bs
[b]
]


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:58 am 
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You confirmed what I first thought, you are an idiot too.

Mainly because of your incredibly arrogant, BIG EGO Tude!

Your method in not fool proof, and you are contributing to confusion, by refusing to post it clearly without the aggression.

Which side of a bar is face up?

How are you going to make me FUCK OFF?




fokiten wrote:
Steve,
one more thing,,

You are a kite instructor,, people pay you for advice

They PAY YOU FOR THE BEST ADVICE YOU CAN GIVE

you have spent several post trying to knock me (the method)down,,

you say you understand my method,,

I bet you will not use it

even though it is far better than yours

It is your EGO that drives you,, YOU TAKE THE MONEY

and let your EGO run your lessons

You are an nice person for not listening to good common sense

and teaching old outdated proven BAD rigging,,

fuck-off

fokiten


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 11:30 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 73
Location: Italy
First of all: fokiten you are a great!

but kitepower can only be a troll, I cant believe someone still doesnt understand your method.
I did not try it yet, so I cant say the final word, but it seems promising.

BTW, I agree it is only a matter of connecting 4 lines!
Me I use the most standard method, just walk side-upwind, then walk back untangling and finally connect using the brain.
I admit I fuck up 5% of the times when I am really in a hurry, but I always realize it when I am holding the bar ready to launch, and I dont understand how someone else could not!

But I also want my dose of fucks, so I will tell u the only doubt I have. IF you dont have a spinnable system (wishard or similar) dont you think you may end up with the 2 central lines twisted? I guess one could easily fix it properly rotating the central loop just before hooking, but this could be annoying expecially if you have a leash on a central line. By my point of view this could be the only advantage of the traditional method I use.

One last thing:
I would be extremely gratefull if, between two fucks, you may tell me your opinion on the hooked-unhooked launching issue.
My opinion is that is quite crazy to launch un-hooked (I mean ALSO from central loop) expecially in high winds, wou will have the kite full power!

greetings to everybody
gyru


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2003 3:55 pm 
gyru wrote:
First of all: fokiten you are a great!

but kitepower can only be a troll, I cant believe someone still doesnt understand your method.
I did not try it yet, so I cant say the final word, but it seems promising.

BTW, I agree it is only a matter of connecting 4 lines!
Me I use the most standard method, just walk side-upwind, then walk back untangling and finally connect using the brain.
I admit I fuck up 5% of the times when I am really in a hurry, but I always realize it when I am holding the bar ready to launch, and I dont understand how someone else could not!

But I also want my dose of fucks, so I will tell u the only doubt I have. IF you dont have a spinnable system (wishard or similar) dont you think you may end up with the 2 central lines twisted? I guess one could easily fix it properly rotating the central loop just before hooking, but this could be annoying expecially if you have a leash on a central line. By my point of view this could be the only advantage of the traditional method I use.

One last thing:
I would be extremely gratefull if, between two fucks, you may tell me your opinion on the hooked-unhooked launching issue.
My opinion is that is quite crazy to launch un-hooked (I mean ALSO from central loop) expecially in high winds, wou will have the kite full power!

greetings to everybody
gyru


Hey gyru,
The thing about my rig method that is different is that by attching the fronts only then walking back the rear lines you have a positive check,
you essentailly confirm that the front line are on the front pigs,,and you are left only to hook up the rear lines properly,,,so the odds of doing it right are increased over the sandard four at once no chek meathod,,

Toby said he can't noty use this method on a front line spinnig leash meathod,,He would know I quess? I just spin out the chick loop to untwist the frontlines before launch,, or for self launch just leave afew twists I use a rear line safety,,,
On the launch quesstion?,,,I launch hooked in,,my feeling is why fuck around trying to shackle in with a hot kite and a floating board in shallow water?? I don't see the safety in that extra chore??
We have good wind here so that makes launching more predictable,,
Hope that helped

fokiten

ps steve give it up dude,,
you may jiggle forever,, it is what I want for you.
enjoy
eudiquewad


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:06 am 
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G'day
I understand what Fokiten is saying, I disagree that it is a totally foolproof and safe system, and I have yet to see that in any system.
Fokiten fails to admit that rigging even side downwind leads to potentially fatal errors at launch, regardless, of the FACT, that I agree that his line connection method is good! :bye:

If you are using a spinning system, have a dick in your c-loop, to stop it falling off then you basically have to launch hooked in, and you need to be extra careful. Always fully depower the kite by pulling in on you trim strap/cleat before launch, and let it out again once you are on the water. Always choose to launch so that you do not have to fly through zenith to get your board and get to the water.


On the personal attack on me being a troll, read up a bit on what that is.
I post under my real name, and I can be found in my shop every day, this is not what a troll is, ok?





gyru wrote:
First of all: fokiten you are a great!

but kitepower can only be a troll, I cant believe someone still doesnt understand your method.
I did not try it yet, so I cant say the final word, but it seems promising.

BTW, I agree it is only a matter of connecting 4 lines!
Me I use the most standard method, just walk side-upwind, then walk back untangling and finally connect using the brain.
I admit I fuck up 5% of the times when I am really in a hurry, but I always realize it when I am holding the bar ready to launch, and I dont understand how someone else could not!

But I also want my dose of fucks, so I will tell u the only doubt I have. IF you dont have a spinnable system (wishard or similar) dont you think you may end up with the 2 central lines twisted? I guess one could easily fix it properly rotating the central loop just before hooking, but this could be annoying expecially if you have a leash on a central line. By my point of view this could be the only advantage of the traditional method I use.

One last thing:
I would be extremely gratefull if, between two fucks, you may tell me your opinion on the hooked-unhooked launching issue.
My opinion is that is quite crazy to launch un-hooked (I mean ALSO from central loop) expecially in high winds, wou will have the kite full power!

greetings to everybody
gyru


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 5:06 am 
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Joined: Tue May 06, 2003 10:29 am
Posts: 775
Location: Hawaii
I cannot understand Fok's rigging method at all !!!

Even I am dumb,or the explanation is not clear,or the system is just stupid!

Steve is not a "Troll"
He is just trying to get some sense out of Fokiten,who,by his abusive and inflamitary posts,would be the Troll !


kitepower wrote:
G'day
I understand what Fokiten is saying, I disagree that it is a totally foolproof and safe system, and I have yet to see that in any system.
Fokiten fails to admit that rigging even side downwind leads to potentially fatal errors at launch, regardless, of the FACT, that I agree that his line connection method is good! :bye:

If you are using a spinning system, have a dick in your c-loop, to stop it falling off then you basically have to launch hooked in, and you need to be extra careful. Always fully depower the kite by pulling in on you trim strap/cleat before launch, and let it out again once you are on the water. Always choose to launch so that you do not have to fly through zenith to get your board and get to the water.


On the personal attack on me being a troll, read up a bit on what that is.
I post under my real name, and I can be found in my shop every day, this is not what a troll is, ok?





gyru wrote:
First of all: fokiten you are a great!

but kitepower can only be a troll, I cant believe someone still doesnt understand your method.
I did not try it yet, so I cant say the final word, but it seems promising.

BTW, I agree it is only a matter of connecting 4 lines!
Me I use the most standard method, just walk side-upwind, then walk back untangling and finally connect using the brain.
I admit I fuck up 5% of the times when I am really in a hurry, but I always realize it when I am holding the bar ready to launch, and I dont understand how someone else could not!

But I also want my dose of fucks, so I will tell u the only doubt I have. IF you dont have a spinnable system (wishard or similar) dont you think you may end up with the 2 central lines twisted? I guess one could easily fix it properly rotating the central loop just before hooking, but this could be annoying expecially if you have a leash on a central line. By my point of view this could be the only advantage of the traditional method I use.

One last thing:
I would be extremely gratefull if, between two fucks, you may tell me your opinion on the hooked-unhooked launching issue.
My opinion is that is quite crazy to launch un-hooked (I mean ALSO from central loop) expecially in high winds, wou will have the kite full power!

greetings to everybody
gyru


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 5:51 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2717
Location: Retailer/distributor
G'day Mick
Thanks for the support.
No doubting Fokiten is a passionate person, but the attitude totally sicks as does the downwind rigging method, simply because to do what Fokiten does means you have to remember to turn the bar around/over before launch or bad shit will happen.

Many people have hurt themselves doing this method, always use the upwind or side upwind option, then his method would be pretty good if you wanted to use it.

Maybe his big ego cannot let him admit there is one potentially fatal flaw in his method, if you can be bothered to read through his jumbled confusing descriptions.

Going by the number and tone of most of his posts, he has some serious anger/ego issues to resolve.

Maybe he is just a troll? I don't think so, and I do think he means well, but his delivery and descriptions, as well as the super aggro tude let it all down, bummer?




MadMick wrote:
I cannot understand Fok's rigging method at all !!!

Even I am dumb,or the explanation is not clear,or the system is just stupid!

Steve is not a "Troll"
He is just trying to get some sense out of Fokiten,who,by his abusive and inflamitary posts,would be the Troll !


kitepower wrote:
G'day
I understand what Fokiten is saying, I disagree that it is a totally foolproof and safe system, and I have yet to see that in any system.
Fokiten fails to admit that rigging even side downwind leads to potentially fatal errors at launch, regardless, of the FACT, that I agree that his line connection method is good! :bye:

If you are using a spinning system, have a dick in your c-loop, to stop it falling off then you basically have to launch hooked in, and you need to be extra careful. Always fully depower the kite by pulling in on you trim strap/cleat before launch, and let it out again once you are on the water. Always choose to launch so that you do not have to fly through zenith to get your board and get to the water.


On the personal attack on me being a troll, read up a bit on what that is.
I post under my real name, and I can be found in my shop every day, this is not what a troll is, ok?





gyru wrote:
First of all: fokiten you are a great!

but kitepower can only be a troll, I cant believe someone still doesnt understand your method.
I did not try it yet, so I cant say the final word, but it seems promising.

BTW, I agree it is only a matter of connecting 4 lines!
Me I use the most standard method, just walk side-upwind, then walk back untangling and finally connect using the brain.
I admit I fuck up 5% of the times when I am really in a hurry, but I always realize it when I am holding the bar ready to launch, and I dont understand how someone else could not!

But I also want my dose of fucks, so I will tell u the only doubt I have. IF you dont have a spinnable system (wishard or similar) dont you think you may end up with the 2 central lines twisted? I guess one could easily fix it properly rotating the central loop just before hooking, but this could be annoying expecially if you have a leash on a central line. By my point of view this could be the only advantage of the traditional method I use.

One last thing:
I would be extremely gratefull if, between two fucks, you may tell me your opinion on the hooked-unhooked launching issue.
My opinion is that is quite crazy to launch un-hooked (I mean ALSO from central loop) expecially in high winds, wou will have the kite full power!

greetings to everybody
gyru


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 9:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2185
Location: Spain/Italy
I know what you mean Mick, the first few times I tried to suss it out I couldn't get it either and it's a shame that Fo doesn't realise that proposing a good rigging method or anything else to do with safety with loads of agro, slang and a fuck this fuck that attitude just creates confusion.
Fo, you know I think you should keep safety and other good samaritan stuff seperate from good clean fokitthen kickass fun, anyway.

The rigging method is like this, really simple.
You need front and back lines that are different colours, some companies already sell their kites with red/blue backs and grey fronts, or you can colour the ends of the lines with marker pens. I think it's a good idea to have the pigtails different colours too.
Lay your kite out blown up on it's leading edge.
Attach the front lines to the LE before unwinding the lines.
Lay the lines out downwind of the kite and put the bar upside down on the beach so both the kite and bar are facing down.
Walk the back lines back to the kite pulling them through the fronts and attach them to the trailing edge.
If you are pulling through the backs and you can't because one is attached to the LE you know you've made a mistake and have inverted the lines.
When you launch you can spin the twists out of the fronts.
I'm sure Fo will add anything I've missed.

Personally I think having knots/loops on the kite to attach to loops/knots on the lines like the North system is more foolproof because it's phsyically impossible to attach the fronts/backs inverted, you can still get right/left wrong though.
I use my foils leaving the bar attached all the time and just walk the lines to the bar and spin the bar to untwist the lines before launching while checking the lines, no prob. Might be more tangle prone for LEIs though.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:34 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2003 11:06 am
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Location: Italy
Jesus, this cant be real!

Steve, why u are so stuck with the downwind "method"?
On my opinion the obvious rigging is side-slightly-upwind, i.e. in the position you get when you land the kite down on the beach (side of the window), as this is also the position to launch from.
Sometimes, for real beginners may be better to rig straight upwind (in order not to fuck around with the four ends), and then walk on the side of the window to launch, but after a couple of time you can easily jump this step.
I dont see any advantages in rigging downwind, but if you like it just remember to turn the bar and that's it. BTW fokiten method DOES NOT IMPLY YOU HAVE TO RIG DOWNWIND, just rig side-up and you dont have to walk before launching!!!

This said I still believe fokiten way is good and quick, with minor disadvantage if you have A NON SPINNABLE system with leash on a CENTRAL line (for example NAISH 2003). In this case you just have to hold the bar and twist the depower until you untwist the centrals. This has to be done (obviously) just before hooking in the central loop while your mate is holding the kite ready to launch. In any case, you have a 50% possibility of having the depower face down once the central are untwisted, which is something you may not like although not a real problem.
Much worse if your system is non spinnable AND you have an asymmetrical chicken loop (wipika 2003). In this case you have again 50% of having the chicken twisted of 180 degrees (wich means quick relase face down and also potential problems with the stop-finger), the only solution would be to turn the chicken properly but having the centrals 180 degrees twisted.

To overcome this 180 degrees problem I suggest to mark somehow the central lines tips (on the kite side!) in order to distinguish left and right. Once you connect properly L&R of the centrals, just follow fokiten and you will have the depower and the central loop face up although you may need to untwist before hooking.

Hope it helps, I use to talk less and kite more, but until september kiting is forbidden in my home spot, so better than nothing...

gyru


P.S. fokiten, too bad the safety on a side line, dont u get crazy on rotations?


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