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Rigging error causes serious accident

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Peter_Frank
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Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Aug 17, 2003 11:18 am

gyru wrote:Jesus, this cant be real!

Steve, why u are so stuck with the downwind "method"?
On my opinion the obvious rigging is side-slightly-upwind, i.e. in the position you get when you land the kite down on the beach (side of the window), as this is also the position to launch from.
Sometimes, for real beginners may be better to rig straight upwind (in order not to fuck around with the four ends), and then walk on the side of the window to launch, but after a couple of time you can easily jump this step.
I dont see any advantages in rigging downwind, but if you like it just remember to turn the bar and that's it. BTW fokiten method DOES NOT IMPLY YOU HAVE TO RIG DOWNWIND, just rig side-up and you dont have to walk before launching!!!
Snip......

gyru



I agree 100% on this one.

This is what we teach on our kite school here too.

ALWAYS rig side-sideupwind in the start/landing position !

You can not rig your kite near any others, if you dont do it this way.

We often see some kiters rigging with their lines straight upwind, or straight downwind.
I believe this was taught in the old days, or in old videos - and this is why some are doing it this way.
When doing this, on a beach with 30 kites on the beach - you are sure to be the most "wanted" person on this beach, because you block all other kites from launching :evil: :evil: :evil:
And you can not even launch yourself, because you have to get your lines over all the other kites, before you can launch !

It does not matter if others rig the same way too - because when a kite is landed, it'll be in this exact position.

So rig the kite the same way, and there will be no problems !

You get another advantage, even if you are alone on the beach/starting area:
Your lines will not be damaged, because they'll just lift straight up from the ground.
The other "old-timer" rigging method causes the lines to be dragged on the ground for up to 40-55 meters (bar end), and this can really damage the lines seriously, when there is rocks/seashells/small wood pieces etc. on the beach.

I believe all kites today are male/female and colour coded, so attaching lines can not go wrong.
If you have an older system, you can easily change it to a "safe" system by making a knot on the back line, and a loop on the front line.
Or use your existing system, if you dont want to change - it is just a matter of doing it in the same and step by step way, and it is easy.

PS: I have not read this whole thread - but would just point out how to rig a kite in the most efficient and practical way, without damage risks.

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Postby Sylt Rider » Sun Aug 17, 2003 4:33 pm

Peter Frank wrote:

PS: I have not read this whole thread - but would just point out how to rig a kite in the most efficient and practical way, without damage risks.


I did, and therefore I am even more pleased for your good advice on how to avoid lines damaged. Not long ago I had to buy a new set of lines, exactly because of the problem you mentioned, I had damaged them ...cause everbody here is still using the old method, so now I will change!

Thanks Peter! :thumb:

fokiten

Postby fokiten » Sun Aug 17, 2003 5:50 pm

Mr Jo Macdonald wrote:I know what you mean Mick, the first few times I tried to suss it out I couldn't get it either and it's a shame that Fo doesn't realise that proposing a good rigging method or anything else to do with safety with loads of agro, slang and a fuck this fuck that attitude just creates confusion.
Fo, you know I think you should keep safety and other good samaritan stuff seperate from good clean fokitthen kickass fun, anyway.

The rigging method is like this, really simple.
You need front and back lines that are different colours, some companies already sell their kites with red/blue backs and grey fronts, or you can colour the ends of the lines with marker pens. I think it's a good idea to have the pigtails different colours too.
Lay your kite out blown up on it's leading edge.
Attach the front lines to the LE before unwinding the lines.
Lay the lines out downwind of the kite and put the bar upside down on the beach so both the kite and bar are facing down.
Walk the back lines back to the kite pulling them through the fronts and attach them to the trailing edge.
If you are pulling through the backs and you can't because one is attached to the LE you know you've made a mistake and have inverted the lines.
When you launch you can spin the twists out of the fronts.
I'm sure Fo will add anything I've missed.

Personally I think having knots/loops on the kite to attach to loops/knots on the lines like the North system is more foolproof because it's phsyically impossible to attach the fronts/backs inverted, you can still get right/left wrong though.
I use my foils leaving the bar attached all the time and just walk the lines to the bar and spin the bar to untwist the lines before launching while checking the lines, no prob. Might be more tangle prone for LEIs though.


Thanks joe,,
Hey I have posted this line by line, no swearing just facts,
AT least 22 times,
POINTS OF INTEREST,,
1,,,,keep it simple,, mark only the rear lines,, this way you do not have four differnt marks to remember,,, mark also the kite (rear pigs) red and green plus do the north male female thing,,You are really sure if you do this
2,,,unwind the bar,,,,SIDE WIND,,SIDE WIND SIDE WIND SIDE WIND SIDE WIND SIDE WIND SIDE WIND ,,,,ok?

Hey,, I like to swear, fuck shit piss off fuck wads fuck shit piss cunt
OK?,,anyway
Im no instructor,,,
I don't really care if mad mick can't figure out you attach the front lines before you unwrap the bar side wind and hand clear the rear lines and hook them up,,I don't know what else to say about it,,
I posted this thinking any right thinking guy or gal could see imeadiaty how this technque was plain old every day better, faster,,smarter,,
whatever, Damn,
Im laughing at the minutia over the bar, put the bar like the kite face down????
How else???
I mean is this really a problem??
cracks me up,,
fokiten

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Postby theflyingtinman » Sun Aug 17, 2003 6:14 pm

gyru wrote:...To overcome this 180 degrees problem I suggest to mark somehow the central lines tips (on the kite side!) in order to distinguish left and right. ...


I do this, marked one front line (the one attached to my leash) black ... I always rig with the leashed wingtip downward during launch. In the event that you have to use the leash while the kite is still on or near the ground you get a much cleaner deployment if the unleashed tip does not have to drag itself out from under the kite, with less chance of something catching and keeping the kite powered (especially at the bomb-site we use as a launch site at 3rd Ave ;) )

Steve T.

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Mr Jo Macdonald
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Postby Mr Jo Macdonald » Mon Aug 18, 2003 8:14 am

fokiten wrote:[Im laughing at the minutia over the bar, put the bar like the kite face down????
How else???
I mean is this really a problem??
cracks me up,,
fokiten


Hi Fo, I think a few people might be used to having the bar the right way up so when they look at it from below like they will be when the kite is flying, red will be on the left and white/blue on the right.
With the bar and kite flying into the beach :wink: you have the sides inverted so someone might put the bar down the right way up with red left or if the bar is upside down attach the red line to the left tip and vice versa which would be wrong or could confuse newbies anyway.

If you rig with the bar the right way up red is left and you attach the red left line from the left side of the bar to the left tip of the kite and vice versa.

Could you use your method to rig upwind of the kite?
Attach the front lines to the LE of kite,
lay the lines out upwind and put the bar down the right way up, red left
pull the backs through and attach them to the trailing edge

This way you can't get front/back wrong, the bar is the right way up, the red line from the left/red side of the bar goes to the left tip on the red pigtail and vice versa

Jo

fokiten

Postby fokiten » Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:57 pm

Mr Jo Macdonald wrote:
fokiten wrote:[Im laughing at the minutia over the bar, put the bar like the kite face down????
How else???
I mean is this really a problem??
cracks me up,,
fokiten


Hi Fo, I think a few people might be used to having the bar the right way up so when they look at it from below like they will be when the kite is flying, red will be on the left and white/blue on the right.
With the bar and kite flying into the beach :wink: you have the sides inverted so someone might put the bar down the right way up with red left or if the bar is upside down attach the red line to the left tip and vice versa which would be wrong or could confuse newbies anyway.

If you rig with the bar the right way up red is left and you attach the red left line from the left side of the bar to the left tip of the kite and vice versa.

Could you use your method to rig upwind of the kite?
Attach the front lines to the LE of kite,
lay the lines out upwind and put the bar down the right way up, red left
pull the backs through and attach them to the trailing edge

This way you can't get front/back wrong, the bar is the right way up, the red line from the left/red side of the bar goes to the left tip on the red pigtail and vice versa

Jo


Hi joe,,
Yes I imagine you could do that,,,, rig up wind,,, bar up,,But why? you then have to drag the bar/lines across the beach to launch? plus you are a minimum of 30 mtr, off the shoe? WHY ?
If you have some mental thing??/ ok I quess,,
The red/ green marks on the kite and rear lines are opposite if you have the bar wrong!,,,,to me this seems a fair indication you 've bozoed up the program,, I mean to then hook the line in your left hand the the wing-tip on your right side,,then step over that line to hook the line in your right hand to the wing tip on your left is a bit too much of a blunder to consider it as being a EASY mistake to make???
What am I missing about kite flyers?
that make them unable to grasp this right or wrong,,,is It red? is it green?
I mean come on?
we can get passed this can't we?

fokiten is now concerned about the complexity of a hand eye assessment of just two choices,, Is it right,???? or do I have to phisically cross MY own lines,,,step over one to cross the other??>>as being beyond the grasp of your average swinging dick
kite freak,,
Damn, we are in trouble

fokiten

Postby fokiten » Mon Aug 18, 2003 5:00 pm

Mr Jo Macdonald wrote:
fokiten wrote:[Im laughing at the minutia over the bar, put the bar like the kite face down????
How else???
I mean is this really a problem??
cracks me up,,
fokiten


Hi Fo, I think a few people might be used to having the bar the right way up so when they look at it from below like they will be when the kite is flying, red will be on the left and white/blue on the right.
With the bar and kite flying into the beach :wink: you have the sides inverted so someone might put the bar down the right way up with red left or if the bar is upside down attach the red line to the left tip and vice versa which would be wrong or could confuse newbies anyway.

If you rig with the bar the right way up red is left and you attach the red left line from the left side of the bar to the left tip of the kite and vice versa.

Could you use your method to rig upwind of the kite?
Attach the front lines to the LE of kite,
lay the lines out upwind and put the bar down the right way up, red left
pull the backs through and attach them to the trailing edge

This way you can't get front/back wrong, the bar is the right way up, the red line from the left/red side of the bar goes to the left tip on the red pigtail and vice versa

Jo


Hi joe,,
Yes I imagine you could do that,,,, rig up wind,,, bar up,,But why? you then have to drag the bar/lines across the beach to launch? plus you are a minimum of 30 mtr, off the shore? WHY ?

If you have some mental thing??/ ok I quess,,

The red/ green marks on the kite and rear lines are opposite if you have the bar wrong!,,,,to me this seems a fair indication you 've bozoed up the program,,

I mean to then hook the line in your left hand the the wing-tip on your right side,,then step over that line to hook the line in your right hand to the wing tip on your left is a bit too much of a blunder to consider it as being a EASY mistake to make???

What am I missing about kite flyers?

that make them unable to grasp this right or wrong,,,is It red? is it green?
I mean come on?

we can get passed this can't we?

fokiten is now concerned about the complexity of a hand eye assessment of just two choices,, Is it right,????

or do I have to phisically cross MY own lines,,,step over one to cross the other??>>as being beyond the grasp of your average swinging dick
kite freak,,

Damn, we are in trouble

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Postby RickI » Mon Aug 18, 2003 10:05 pm

A website was established with updates on the woman whose accident started this thread at:

http://secure.lenos.com/lenos/we/deborah/home.htm

I hope that she recovers fully and soon. It is amazing that this degree of injury can happen in such light winds and against sand. It is a strong warning to the rest of us to take care out there.

I noticed that my new RECON has polar connectors as reportedly most other manufacturers have this year as well. You still need to preflight carefully but it will be great to see this cause of injury fade into the past.

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Re:

Postby SupaEZ » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:02 pm

fokiten wrote:
Hey,, I like to swear, fuck shit piss off fuck wads fuck shit piss cunt
OK?,,anyway
Im no instructor
fokiten


Like you just said....you are the same as 8 years ago......dirty mouth and paws who types whatever

....I just can't get passed your past and please consider this my present yo you
....You owe me step #9 Amends
....Just waiting patiently an honest apology
....You started the insult comments

Supa

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Re: Rigging error causes serious accident

Postby tunceskite415 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:36 pm

Don't touch the bar. Let it go competely. Hold the stearing line (there is only one when launching) lightly with your fingers and steer the kite into the air. This way the bar cannot be "picked up backwards" and the bar will be completely depowered.


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