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 Post subject: S O L O Landing, the real world
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:16 am 
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Thanks RickI for the advise, I know you mean good, but your "Method" may result in some serious injuries.
The method you suggest is actually to throw away the kite from the zenith point, hoping that it would fall nicely.
Your "Self Landing" is not a self landing but an emergency landing, Crash and burn type of landing.
Releas of the chicken loop- will result in no controll over the depower of the kite, and when doing so when kite is on top>...???..<- woohoo, here comes trouble!!.
a. Many guy do not use leash at all, or different types of leash systems.
b. its always better to minimize drop hight by flying the kite as low as you can, at the edge of the window prior to landing (same with emergency airplane landings)
c. Therefore, for self landing, simply fly your kite as low as you can above the water, and land it face down on the water so it will "stick" to the water
ONLY AT THIS POINT, after the kite is landed on the water, you immediatly release the chicken loop, and run towards your kite and catch it.

I find it much more realistic than the proposed "throw-your-kite-and-pray" method you recomended.....

adios amigo!
:bye:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:18 am 
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Agreed.

PKA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:55 am 
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Or if your safety doesn't work....park kite low, grab one leader line, unhook from chicken loop, let go of bar while holding a leader line high up - and get ready for the pull, but don't let go.

This is not very comfortable, but I've done it a bunch of times (from 10 to 35 knots), never cut my hands, you just have to stick it out when the kite goes zooming across the window when releasing the bar, and you are holding one leader line. Then, work your way up towards the kite on the one leader line (by this point it will have crashed on the water).

I don't recommend doing this on the beach - precarious, plus could damage kite. Just sail in, drop off your board, then get back in the water minus your board, body drag out to a comfortable distance where you will not endanger yourself or others, then crash the kite. Finally, once you've worked your way to the "ears" of the kite, grab em and body drag in.

This is better than doing a similar move with kite at zenith because:

1) at zenith you don't know how the kite will fall, could be powered up, could get you tangled in the lines, etc.

2) with kite at edge of window under tension, you know where it will pull, and there is no risk of you getting tangled because the lines pull away from you, and don't land on you (possibly).

Steve


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:57 am 
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by the way, the RRD oh-shit handle on their bar looks like a perfect solution. I just wish all bars had this, of course you can always make one -but I'm sick of always having to modify the bar set-up.

Steve


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 1:18 pm 
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How many times did you try this approach before discarding the idea?

I have used it routinely after hundreds of sessions over four years in light winds up to the mid 40 mph range for solo landings. Other guys use it routinely as well. The kite falls straight downwind flagging straight outwards, you can even pick the spot where it will fall many times

If you have a leash malfunction, this approach and most ANY other solo approach may go badly. Efforts need to be taken by the kiter to attempt to improve the reliability of kite leash function. I am not sure what your point is here. The severe potential consequences of not using a kite leash aren't even worth going into here.

People have been severely injured and some have DIED while waiting for an assisted landing or by continuing to fly their kites as trouble moved in. We had lots of these avoidable accidents last year. Riders MUST BE WILLING TO DEPOWER IN AN EMERGENCY BEFORE THINGS GO TOO FAR.

Forget this approach, it is only one set of ideas and it really doesn't matter to me in the least.

What is your approach? It needs to work in all winds and while still in the water to be of use in many emergencies. Forget the pivot approach where you slide your kite across the beach for this situation. You need to be on or nearshore to do that and that is too close under certain emergency circumstances and it is unreliable in higher winds.

"So, carefully explore options and figure out YOUR solo landing/emergency depower technique and practice it. It should be second nature. " There is no reason for more serious injuries to occur because people hesistate to put on the brakes because THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO or are uncertain.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 2:40 pm 
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Activate the leash at the edge of the window???
I have to disagree with that, i drop my bar and QR at Zenith, with the kite (Toro 14) "stable".
Even my old rheas are allways leashed from zenith.
If i let go at the edge, near the sand or water, the kite will float to the middle of the window (powerzone), the friction with the water or sand can make the kite turn over itself in impredictable ways, this is worse with a foil with bridles as the kite can become tangled in its own lines.

I guess you've been lucky so far.

As to
Quote:
b. its always better to minimize drop hight by flying the kite as low as you can, at the edge of the window prior to landing (same with emergency airplane landings)

Are you afraid of the kite going full speed to the ground? Give it a tug a few meters above ground and then walk/run towards it, this will slow the descent. Emergency airplane landings? What's similar?

I think the zenith is a much cleaner solution, the leash has to be working properly, but this is the main problem, the majority of riders don't even have one.

I would like to see some foil flyers comment on this, everyone i know release their kite from zenith and let it float down.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:08 pm 
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Location: Vermont, USA
I use Rick's method all the time. In 4 years I have never had an issue. It makes sense to look your lines over to make sure you don't have tangles, before you let the bar go. Another variation on this is to take the kite to the edge of the window, dive it so it tips onto the leading edge. Let the wind bring it to a position directly downwind of you, and release your shackle. The kite just lays out on the water.

Using Rick's technique, you will be familiar with what happens when you need to do this in an emergency.

When possible, always go with an assisted landing and launch.

Gary


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 4:20 pm 
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Location: lost in NorCal.
Try this, unless you're massively overpowered (you *must* have long leaders, at least 4 meters):

- bring the kite tip down to the water slowly
- grab the 2 leaders that go to the tip in the water,
- reel in an armload of the 2 leaders, wrap it around the bar,
- keep reeling in armloads of the 2 leaders til the kite sits flat on the water.
- start figure 8'g all 4 lines around the bar til you don't have enough line out in the water to be a hazard.

- advantage: you shouldn't have to spend 3 hours untangling lines, and kite won't jerk around like it does when you just let the leash depower it.

- at some point, you're grabbing flying line, which isn't a big deal w/Q-power, but i wouldn't want to do this with braided white spectra.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:55 am 
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Location: Los Angeles, California
Quote:
"bobbybill" wrote:
...at some point, you're grabbing flying line, which isn't a big deal w/Q-power, but i wouldn't want to do this with braided white spectra.


Unless you're wearing gloves. I always wear Ronstan "3-finger" sailing gloves.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:57 am 
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Location: Los Angeles, California
Quote:
"RickI" wrote:
People have been severely injured and some have DIED while waiting for an assisted landing...


Can you give us a link to reports of that? I'd like to show the locals who are insisting that assisted landings are worth waiting for.


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