Hey Fabjet
Thanks for your support! Thanks to anonymous, Den and others as well.
F-One is a great company. They are the only company I have ever heard of that stood behind their foil kites 100%. I know of several people who have sent F-One back damaged foils that were several years old. F-One has never failed to take it upon theirselves to fix the kites and return them free of any charge(aside from shipping). I can't say that they still employ this policy over on their inflatables though. I would imagine not since inflatables can and do self destruct pretty bad from the right crash landing.
Contrary to popular belief, Naish kites are NOT made in Sri Lanka, it is their windsurfing sails that are made there. Rumor has it that they are trying to get setup to produce their kites from that same plant, but at this point in time, that is just rumor-ish, not TRUTH. "But this post isn't supposed to be about Naish" you are saying. Where I am going with this is that Naish kites are produced side by side in the same factory as F-One kites. BOTH of these brands are produced at the S.I.M. factory in CHINA.
This is a great facility with pretty high standards of quality control. At this point in the game, I don't think that F-One could be being produced in a better place unless they were to set up their OWN kitefactory. Until one of these kite companies takes that HUGE step in the right direction and decides to open up their OWN plant so as that they can oversee quality control for themselves, S.I.M. is a great place to be. They seem to be pretty much on top of their game.
As far as what your F-one is made of, I'm sorry to say that I can't answer that question for you at this very moment. I WILL in due time though. If I had one of them here in front of me, I could better address that question for you. The last time I laid my hands on an F-One kite has been a while past and I wasn't even thinking about WHAT it was made of, but rather, HOW it was flying. I liked it's performance, and it seemed to have a great turning speed for it's sizes in inflatables. It APPEARED to me like they achieved this speed by having shorter wingtips than most others...however, that is just an opinion and I am not stating it to be a fact.
F-one has a good reputation here for being a good company. I honestly can't imagine them trying to produce a cheap kite OR trying to short change OR rip-off the public in any intentional way. As far as their construction and durability goes, you are going to have to use your own good judgement on that, and it is best done by comparing it to some other kites.
If f-one is what you are flying, and it is working good for you, I'd have to say to go with it. Again, they are a reputable company and seem to care about their customers. Hope this has been of some help to you.
I will see what I can dig up on ALL the major brands of kites, F-One included, so as that I can better answer questions like these about kites I have yet to REALLY look into. SO stay tuned and I WILL cover the F-One's in more detail in the very near future(next couple days or so?)
True tru...
Gaastra GX2 2003
I don´t a damn about the materials quality... yet. Why should I when the kites develop so fast that the kite will so much earlier totally out of date than it will break. Compare a AR5 with any new kite and the difference in depower & power is fenomenal. When the kite development stabilises in few years, then it´s time to start worrying how many years your kite is going to last. Today 2-3 years is max for both materials and design.
I care about how long they last. Even old AR5's still fly good enough. They are still popular with newbie buyers. These kites are way too expensive to not have good resale value.
Unfortunately we are at a point in this sport where there are too many kite companies. They are sponsoring every rider who can jump over 20 feet and do spins. If half the riders pay below wholesale for their kites, the resale market will stay shitty for a long time.
We have so many sponsored locals that unsponsored guys are refusing to buy new kites.
These kite companies don't care, they just want to win the market wars.
Just lower the price if you want to win. Stop ripping us off.
Keep the TRUTH coming
Unfortunately we are at a point in this sport where there are too many kite companies. They are sponsoring every rider who can jump over 20 feet and do spins. If half the riders pay below wholesale for their kites, the resale market will stay shitty for a long time.
We have so many sponsored locals that unsponsored guys are refusing to buy new kites.
These kite companies don't care, they just want to win the market wars.
Just lower the price if you want to win. Stop ripping us off.
Keep the TRUTH coming
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Toby
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Rhino-Addict,
It’s worth the wait, the Rhino II is killer. My friend was at the Gorge and saw it. It has lots of extra reinforcing holding the ribs to the leading edge. Totally surf bomber construction. The glass battens are back in the tips. Inflatable strut tips were tried and battens are now back.
A Naish team rider drove up to check the wind, it was too gusty and wild, so he left. Will James took his Rhino II 16m out and showed everybody what a killer kite it is. He went off in those insane winds the Naish guys walked away from. My friend saw all the kites. He rides Wipika now, but plans to switch to all North in October when they come out.
It’s worth the wait, the Rhino II is killer. My friend was at the Gorge and saw it. It has lots of extra reinforcing holding the ribs to the leading edge. Totally surf bomber construction. The glass battens are back in the tips. Inflatable strut tips were tried and battens are now back.
A Naish team rider drove up to check the wind, it was too gusty and wild, so he left. Will James took his Rhino II 16m out and showed everybody what a killer kite it is. He went off in those insane winds the Naish guys walked away from. My friend saw all the kites. He rides Wipika now, but plans to switch to all North in October when they come out.
TRUTH (or is it) said:
"
My actual point their was that Winlock is actually a windsurf sail factory, prior to making any kites there.
"
But,
S.I.M is MAINLY a windsurfing sail factory also. So why so much fantastic words about this factory?
They produce MANY windsurfing sails like Simmer and so on..
Airush wich you also says have fantastic materials is made in A.Lam - it's also MAINLY a windsurfing factory. (Tushingham sails and more)
There is one point you missing here - that a windsurfsails factory are not so good at producing kites. That is pure bullshit. I have talked to factory bosses of this plants and they all say the same thing - it's not the plants or the employes that make a good kite or sail, it's the materials and the designer effort to put right material in the right place.
And back to the Dimension sailcloth thing:
TRUTH says:
"
And at this time, we have Marina from Kiteexcite saying that Gaastra DOES use Teijin brand for their canopies, and at the same time we have (hohoho) saying that Gaastra uses Dimension brand fabrics for their kites....and stating that I am WRONG AGAIN...
"
Well, first you says that I have not read your statements thoroughly enough.
Wrong - but you HAVENT READ MINE!
I didn't say that they are using Dimension brand fabrics for their kites, I said:
"
And how about the light constructed gaastra windsurfing sails mr.TRUTH. They have Dimension X-ply, you said Dimension was the BEST, how could the be light constructed???
"
Do you see? It says WINDSURFING SAILS. Not kites. I have never said that Dimension is used in Gaastra kites. But they do have a dacron that is of equal quality. (Statment by Marina)
Clearly it was YOU that didn't read MY statements thoroughly enough...
And therefor you are wrong again... sorry, but thats life...
And if you compare the canopy of Gaastra and Airush you will feel the same cloth... go out and feel it TRUTH...
Because I know you like Airush as you wrote.
So in your quest for giving the kitepublic true information about kites, and clearly stating that you (who are above all...) not are talking bad about any brand (just gaastra...) just simply has the right information.
Well, we have Marina with info from Gaastra about LE and canopy.
FACT: Gaastra canopy are from Teijin of Japan. And I have not (as you CLEARLY said)stated that is was from Dimension. It was just you being wrong again..
If you not belive this, why dont you just visit their website and throw away a email to them asking about this. Do you really think they would not tell the truth???
(With reference to this wich you wrote:
"
Come on now...do you really expect Gaastra or anyone else for that matter to put up on their site they they make the cheapest kite on the market today?
"
And this, YOUR statment, falls flat as we have one really reliable source, Marina, who do seems to get information directly from Gaastra.
So then the Gaastra kite SUDDENLY!! is made out of 90 percent of the best material. (Teijin)
That leaves us only the LE and struts to discuss. It's crap you said, but on the other hand you also said that the canopy was crap, Oh yea right, you were wrong about that.
So may we really trust you in the LE case? I think not.
(Why dont you just mail them and ask your questions and then show it to us here. But it's hard to be wrong again I guess...)
And by the way, Neil Pryde, North and Gaastra are the biggest windsurfing sail companys with their own factorys. They all produce real quality products and will also be the biggest kiting brands of the future. It's just simple business calculations. Like it or not.
And it seems that I was wrong about Naish are made in Sri Lanka - they are proberlbly made in China. Feels good to be wrong on this point. (I wonder if they make windsurfing sails there?
)
Thanks for reading.
"
My actual point their was that Winlock is actually a windsurf sail factory, prior to making any kites there.
"
But,
S.I.M is MAINLY a windsurfing sail factory also. So why so much fantastic words about this factory?
They produce MANY windsurfing sails like Simmer and so on..
Airush wich you also says have fantastic materials is made in A.Lam - it's also MAINLY a windsurfing factory. (Tushingham sails and more)
There is one point you missing here - that a windsurfsails factory are not so good at producing kites. That is pure bullshit. I have talked to factory bosses of this plants and they all say the same thing - it's not the plants or the employes that make a good kite or sail, it's the materials and the designer effort to put right material in the right place.
And back to the Dimension sailcloth thing:
TRUTH says:
"
And at this time, we have Marina from Kiteexcite saying that Gaastra DOES use Teijin brand for their canopies, and at the same time we have (hohoho) saying that Gaastra uses Dimension brand fabrics for their kites....and stating that I am WRONG AGAIN...
"
Well, first you says that I have not read your statements thoroughly enough.
Wrong - but you HAVENT READ MINE!
I didn't say that they are using Dimension brand fabrics for their kites, I said:
"
And how about the light constructed gaastra windsurfing sails mr.TRUTH. They have Dimension X-ply, you said Dimension was the BEST, how could the be light constructed???
"
Do you see? It says WINDSURFING SAILS. Not kites. I have never said that Dimension is used in Gaastra kites. But they do have a dacron that is of equal quality. (Statment by Marina)
Clearly it was YOU that didn't read MY statements thoroughly enough...
And therefor you are wrong again... sorry, but thats life...
And if you compare the canopy of Gaastra and Airush you will feel the same cloth... go out and feel it TRUTH...
Because I know you like Airush as you wrote.
So in your quest for giving the kitepublic true information about kites, and clearly stating that you (who are above all...) not are talking bad about any brand (just gaastra...) just simply has the right information.
Well, we have Marina with info from Gaastra about LE and canopy.
FACT: Gaastra canopy are from Teijin of Japan. And I have not (as you CLEARLY said)stated that is was from Dimension. It was just you being wrong again..
If you not belive this, why dont you just visit their website and throw away a email to them asking about this. Do you really think they would not tell the truth???
(With reference to this wich you wrote:
"
Come on now...do you really expect Gaastra or anyone else for that matter to put up on their site they they make the cheapest kite on the market today?
"
And this, YOUR statment, falls flat as we have one really reliable source, Marina, who do seems to get information directly from Gaastra.
So then the Gaastra kite SUDDENLY!! is made out of 90 percent of the best material. (Teijin)
That leaves us only the LE and struts to discuss. It's crap you said, but on the other hand you also said that the canopy was crap, Oh yea right, you were wrong about that.
So may we really trust you in the LE case? I think not.
(Why dont you just mail them and ask your questions and then show it to us here. But it's hard to be wrong again I guess...)
And by the way, Neil Pryde, North and Gaastra are the biggest windsurfing sail companys with their own factorys. They all produce real quality products and will also be the biggest kiting brands of the future. It's just simple business calculations. Like it or not.
And it seems that I was wrong about Naish are made in Sri Lanka - they are proberlbly made in China. Feels good to be wrong on this point. (I wonder if they make windsurfing sails there?
)Thanks for reading.
Mr.hoho are back again.
I just have to comment on the following statment from TRUTH.
"
This is a great facility with pretty high standards of quality control. At this point in the game, I don't think that F-One could be being produced in a better place unless they were to set up their OWN kitefactory. Until one of these kite companies takes that HUGE step in the right direction and decides to open up their OWN plant so as that they can oversee quality control for themselves, S.I.M. is a great place to be. They seem to be pretty much on top of their game.
"
This is REALLY SILLY!!!
For example, take some windsurfing sails like Arrows, Pryde, Gaastra and North.
Compare the sails and you will see that all the factorys make EXCELLENT SAILS of highest quality.
It just up to the designer to put the right material in the right place. AND to choose quality materials.
If you would count the faulty sails coming out from these factorys and then comparing it with the diffrent factorys the diffrence would be SOOOO small.
They all have the same type of staff and the same type of machines! (very small difference)
Quality is all about having the designer on place when the sails or kites are produced. Picking random products from the production cycle and checking for errors - and if, correct them.
So saying that a factory (the main ones) in it self has a much higher standard then any other is bull.
Not to 'diss' you mr.TRUTH. Just discussing facts.
I just have to comment on the following statment from TRUTH.
"
This is a great facility with pretty high standards of quality control. At this point in the game, I don't think that F-One could be being produced in a better place unless they were to set up their OWN kitefactory. Until one of these kite companies takes that HUGE step in the right direction and decides to open up their OWN plant so as that they can oversee quality control for themselves, S.I.M. is a great place to be. They seem to be pretty much on top of their game.
"
This is REALLY SILLY!!!
For example, take some windsurfing sails like Arrows, Pryde, Gaastra and North.
Compare the sails and you will see that all the factorys make EXCELLENT SAILS of highest quality.
It just up to the designer to put the right material in the right place. AND to choose quality materials.
If you would count the faulty sails coming out from these factorys and then comparing it with the diffrent factorys the diffrence would be SOOOO small.
They all have the same type of staff and the same type of machines! (very small difference)
Quality is all about having the designer on place when the sails or kites are produced. Picking random products from the production cycle and checking for errors - and if, correct them.
So saying that a factory (the main ones) in it self has a much higher standard then any other is bull.
Not to 'diss' you mr.TRUTH. Just discussing facts.
Ok ok...all factories produce kites to the same quality control standards. Fine. You believe that if you like, I happen to know differ.
Lots of kites...MOST all kites are made in a windsurf factory of some sort, true that is. I never implied they weren't. What I did imply was that Gaastra was being produced in a windsurf factory that NO OTHER kite company wishes to have their kites produced in. I wonder why that is. Do you suppose that maybe Winlock does such a good job on it and charges top dollar prices that the others wish not to do business with them? Or could it be that they produce cheap ass kites and none of the other kite companies wish to have their kites produced there? I guess YOU will make a decision on which it is, and I am most sure that you will make it a point to include in your decision that "Mr. Truth is wrong again". Has it ever occured to you that maybe MR. Truth is actualy Ms. Truth? The world didn't just suddenly pop up with a bunch of huge kitesurfing kite factories now did it? And you honestly don't think that I thought that do you?
And while it is mostly the kite designer who does instruct the sail factories on how to make their kites and what to use, their is NOT a designer present 24/7 to watch over the quality control. Those factories and those running them seem to think it's ok to lie too. Personally I don't, and just because they wish to feed some of us BS doesn't mean it's true BS. I know they will lie as I have seen them and caught them in it in the past. They also have no problem telling kite companies that they are running right on schedule and will have their kites by such and such date, knowing damn well that they are NOT on scedule and that they are NOT going to make that date. Again, this is the factories LIEING, and then letting themselves be caught in it...and knowing that they are going to be caught up in it on the due date. I don't know if it's a China thing or whatnot, but those are not honest and practical business ethics.
I do NOT like Airrush kites! I personally wouldn't own one...TRUE that is, but at the same time, if someone asks what their airrush is made of, I am not going to lie to them just to make Airrush look bad just because I am NOT too fond of their product. I just tell them the TRUTH! So please do not interpret what I say as my likeing Airrush. Do not put words in my mouth for me either. You already do a pretty lousy job of putting words in your OWN mouth. It was more of my answering someones question about their Airrush kites. Nothing more, nothing less.
To say that all factories work to the same standards of quality control is only kidding yourself, but I could care less about that either...as long as it's YOU that's fooled and not me, it's no skin off of my back. It is NOT the same people working the same factories, It is not the exact same machines, they aren't run under the same supervision, they aren't the same size as each other...nor do they all do the same volume as each other; and could it be that maybe one or more factories is producing SO MANY kites that they are having a really hard time keeping up with quality control? A factory can produce quantity, or quality, but if they try to step up the quantity, they will most definatley lose some on the qaulity. Tell me ONE instance in ANY industry producing things that this doesn't hold true in. The MORE you have to make by a set deadline, the lower the quality control is going to be, PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
As far as my mailing a company asking them questions that I have already found the answers to elsewhere, WHATEVER! You do it. You are the one doubting me. You are the one that takes great pleasure in trying to point out that I am Wrong, Wrong, and WRONG AGAIN. IF I were going to contact them, it would be via a phone call, so I could hear them SAY it as opposed to reading whatever their PR man writes for me. But the only RIGHT way to do it is to go and see for yourself and maybe even take some pictures to prove it. Have you done this?
And YES, you were dead wrong about Naish kites being produced in Sri Lanka, as you insisted a couple of times, but I'm not going to spend so much time dwelling on making sure everyone knows or THINKS that you are wrong. "You are wrong AGAIN..." are words that you will not and have not heard come out of my mouth as I wish not to lower myself to your standards of slinging mud at you as you do me. Not my style. Sorry.
Marina "SEEMS" to be....yup..she "SEEMS" to be something in your eyes by her saying her source of info is Gaastra. Take that for what you will. Just because I have not disclosed to you my source of information, you decide to write it off as incredible. These forums make it possible and easy for us all to make decisions based on information presented here. Because you don't agree with what I say, and because Marina is talking to Gaastra, that doesn't take ANY credibility away from my statements. It's simply YOU choosing whom YOU wish to believe in. And this is fine. That's the nature of these forums. Luckily, alot of the people here can see past that and your shots at me. But you choosing to come in and continually say "wrong again.." is only showing your bias towards which you DO believe, and it adds NOTHING to this discussion aside from showing us all how you choose to conduct yourself. When Marina chooses to put "FACT:" in front of what she is hearing, you seem to decide that it is fact. It's people like you that make it so easy for some of these companies to pull the wool over your eyes. KEEP up the good work! I'm sure some of the kite companies are loving you and your kind for it.
And yup, Marina says that Gaastra produces their own Dacron, and she is 100% correct about that, but to say that they produce a superior or even equal grade of dacron is a stretch at best. They use their OWN to keep their kites as cheap to produce as possible, because the RIGHT stuff would increase their cost and thus lower their profit margin of ripping people like yourself off. Sorry if you have a hard time swallowing that.
And finally, This IS my final reply and post to this thread as I can plainly see that my information is a little too far advanced for some of you to deal with. I have come forward with a LITTLE information that I actually probably shouldn't have to see IF you guys were ready for the truth. I have found the answer to this and WILL NOT be disclosing anymore information here. Time will show you the truth! It will be known in due time. I will wait a few months, maybe longer, until what I know IS more common knowledge, and then, MAYBE, I will try discuss it further with those that are interested in having a normal discussion as opposed to you, who likes to try to spit all over me as much as you can.
Until then.....GO buy yourself a GAASTRA! Buy yourself an entire quiver of them! I'm sure you and EXPECIALLY Gaastra will be MOST PLEASED!
The TRUTH is outta here!
Lots of kites...MOST all kites are made in a windsurf factory of some sort, true that is. I never implied they weren't. What I did imply was that Gaastra was being produced in a windsurf factory that NO OTHER kite company wishes to have their kites produced in. I wonder why that is. Do you suppose that maybe Winlock does such a good job on it and charges top dollar prices that the others wish not to do business with them? Or could it be that they produce cheap ass kites and none of the other kite companies wish to have their kites produced there? I guess YOU will make a decision on which it is, and I am most sure that you will make it a point to include in your decision that "Mr. Truth is wrong again". Has it ever occured to you that maybe MR. Truth is actualy Ms. Truth? The world didn't just suddenly pop up with a bunch of huge kitesurfing kite factories now did it? And you honestly don't think that I thought that do you?
And while it is mostly the kite designer who does instruct the sail factories on how to make their kites and what to use, their is NOT a designer present 24/7 to watch over the quality control. Those factories and those running them seem to think it's ok to lie too. Personally I don't, and just because they wish to feed some of us BS doesn't mean it's true BS. I know they will lie as I have seen them and caught them in it in the past. They also have no problem telling kite companies that they are running right on schedule and will have their kites by such and such date, knowing damn well that they are NOT on scedule and that they are NOT going to make that date. Again, this is the factories LIEING, and then letting themselves be caught in it...and knowing that they are going to be caught up in it on the due date. I don't know if it's a China thing or whatnot, but those are not honest and practical business ethics.
I do NOT like Airrush kites! I personally wouldn't own one...TRUE that is, but at the same time, if someone asks what their airrush is made of, I am not going to lie to them just to make Airrush look bad just because I am NOT too fond of their product. I just tell them the TRUTH! So please do not interpret what I say as my likeing Airrush. Do not put words in my mouth for me either. You already do a pretty lousy job of putting words in your OWN mouth. It was more of my answering someones question about their Airrush kites. Nothing more, nothing less.
To say that all factories work to the same standards of quality control is only kidding yourself, but I could care less about that either...as long as it's YOU that's fooled and not me, it's no skin off of my back. It is NOT the same people working the same factories, It is not the exact same machines, they aren't run under the same supervision, they aren't the same size as each other...nor do they all do the same volume as each other; and could it be that maybe one or more factories is producing SO MANY kites that they are having a really hard time keeping up with quality control? A factory can produce quantity, or quality, but if they try to step up the quantity, they will most definatley lose some on the qaulity. Tell me ONE instance in ANY industry producing things that this doesn't hold true in. The MORE you have to make by a set deadline, the lower the quality control is going to be, PLAIN AND SIMPLE!
As far as my mailing a company asking them questions that I have already found the answers to elsewhere, WHATEVER! You do it. You are the one doubting me. You are the one that takes great pleasure in trying to point out that I am Wrong, Wrong, and WRONG AGAIN. IF I were going to contact them, it would be via a phone call, so I could hear them SAY it as opposed to reading whatever their PR man writes for me. But the only RIGHT way to do it is to go and see for yourself and maybe even take some pictures to prove it. Have you done this?
And YES, you were dead wrong about Naish kites being produced in Sri Lanka, as you insisted a couple of times, but I'm not going to spend so much time dwelling on making sure everyone knows or THINKS that you are wrong. "You are wrong AGAIN..." are words that you will not and have not heard come out of my mouth as I wish not to lower myself to your standards of slinging mud at you as you do me. Not my style. Sorry.
Marina "SEEMS" to be....yup..she "SEEMS" to be something in your eyes by her saying her source of info is Gaastra. Take that for what you will. Just because I have not disclosed to you my source of information, you decide to write it off as incredible. These forums make it possible and easy for us all to make decisions based on information presented here. Because you don't agree with what I say, and because Marina is talking to Gaastra, that doesn't take ANY credibility away from my statements. It's simply YOU choosing whom YOU wish to believe in. And this is fine. That's the nature of these forums. Luckily, alot of the people here can see past that and your shots at me. But you choosing to come in and continually say "wrong again.." is only showing your bias towards which you DO believe, and it adds NOTHING to this discussion aside from showing us all how you choose to conduct yourself. When Marina chooses to put "FACT:" in front of what she is hearing, you seem to decide that it is fact. It's people like you that make it so easy for some of these companies to pull the wool over your eyes. KEEP up the good work! I'm sure some of the kite companies are loving you and your kind for it.
And yup, Marina says that Gaastra produces their own Dacron, and she is 100% correct about that, but to say that they produce a superior or even equal grade of dacron is a stretch at best. They use their OWN to keep their kites as cheap to produce as possible, because the RIGHT stuff would increase their cost and thus lower their profit margin of ripping people like yourself off. Sorry if you have a hard time swallowing that.
And finally, This IS my final reply and post to this thread as I can plainly see that my information is a little too far advanced for some of you to deal with. I have come forward with a LITTLE information that I actually probably shouldn't have to see IF you guys were ready for the truth. I have found the answer to this and WILL NOT be disclosing anymore information here. Time will show you the truth! It will be known in due time. I will wait a few months, maybe longer, until what I know IS more common knowledge, and then, MAYBE, I will try discuss it further with those that are interested in having a normal discussion as opposed to you, who likes to try to spit all over me as much as you can.
Until then.....GO buy yourself a GAASTRA! Buy yourself an entire quiver of them! I'm sure you and EXPECIALLY Gaastra will be MOST PLEASED!
The TRUTH is outta here!