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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2002 2:28 pm 
is it the one seen on:

http://www.kiteproshop.com/

grettings andré


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2002 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 457
Location: Munich, Germany
Yeah, you're right!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2002 5:10 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: Netherlands
Hi Toby!

I think the stuff you have done with this forum is great, and I also think the Kiteproshop is the best online shop (know it out of experience), but don't give a review here as if you were an independent observer. I don't think anyone would mind on this forum if you make a bit of advertisement here for a product which you sell. And I do believe that this bar is the best and the safest, but don't play the regular forum-user. I think half the forum-users here know that Toby = Admin = KPS.
I went to see Spiderman last night and the not even hidden Carlsberg and Dr Pepper advertisement in it ruined half the film for me. If you advertise, do it openly.

I don't think it was worth to start a new thread just for this observation as you suggested. Now back to the discussion about this KiteProShop.com-bar. I am a bit worried that the depower balls on the bar would accidentally pop off the end of the bar and that the right and left lines would then all of a sudden be of unequal length. Any experience with that?
Wouldn't the North system, where you have depowerstraps on the steering lines, be a safer option?

Greetings!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:46 pm 
Hi everyone,

Just one observation regarding the release (if I understood the system rights). If I release just one line, the 3 others stay put? Also if I release just this one line, I completely loose it (won't it get tangled up?)

I am a kite beginner, so maybe theses questions are a bit naive.

José


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2002 9:37 pm 
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Jose,

if you pull the red release at the Wichard, three lines and the bar fly away and only one line stays at your harness hook. So you still have the safety attached, which is only one frontline.
I hope that explained it.

Bruno,

I would like to be just a normal forum user.
That's why I never made advertising for the shop or board. Of course I say it is a great board, since it is, but also say you have to test it against others to find out what suits you the best. I never said this shop is the cheapest or best. And if the X or KPS has to say something, it will be posted under their name, like many other .coms do as well.
Of course I could do way more advertising, but don't want it to keep the forum independent. And I guess that everyone noticed that it is, isn't it?
But I had to comment this bar system, since it is a big step to safer kiting, which is a big interest of mine and a bet yours as well.
And I guess that you guys will understand this.

There will be a video available soon, about how the stuff works, also the depower adjustment.

A "normal" adjuster is good, but not good enough, since you have to have it pulled all the time to have power, which means that the ends will fly around your hands all the time while riding and it will kill your nervs!
We tried it.....
Also you have to adjust both sites exactly by the same lenght, otherwise you have the kite pulling always to one side.
But I guess you want to ride and jump ad don't want to spend the whole day adjusting it.

This bar is really nice and hopefully shops near you have it soon so you can test it and decide yourself, if you like it or not.

If you come to the Kitesurf Trophy in Fehmarn, Germany, August 23.-25th, you will be able to test it.
So far we have 5 riders starting with this bar at the competition.
And I guess it will be more....

Sorry for the advertising.....

Greetings
Toby


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2002 9:47 pm 
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Bruno,

we didn't have the balls pop of unexpected so far.
Maybe they will in whatever situation, but it is no problem to keep control and push it back on.

Cheers
Toby


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 3:10 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 143
Many of us have been following this forum for a long time. The main reason for the success of this forum is because of Toby's direct participation in the discussions.

I strongly support Toby bringing this product to the Forum's attention, despite anyone's perceived conflict of interest.
I will always prefer to see a new product introduced in this way as opposed to some retail announcement kind of post.

Toby is letting us know about what could be an important breakthrough in control bars. He is doing it in a way that allows us to scrutinize it, ask questions and make our own decisions about it. We've examined a number of unique control bars here on the Forum in exactly this same way.

Toby, please don't ever hold back communicating with us. There are allot of us out here who respect your analysis and opinions. I'd hate to see you dillute your postings in order to try to stay neutral. I salute you for keeping it real and encourage you to keep it up.

Now back to the topic: Toby, can you tell us how the quick releases work compared to the X2 quick releases? Thanks~

John


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 9:43 am 
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thx John.

The big difference between the X2 QR is following:

If it comes to a dangerous situation and you decide to release the first QR to have the kite safe, you have to grap the QR from Naish, squeeze it and pull it AWAY from you.
Then the kite will hang on to the safety leash.
The Kitebar-System QR works almost the same way: just slide down the depower line and you are right at the Wichard and when you keep sliding down, it will release and bring the kite into safety.
The big advantage is, that you have to pull the trigger TOWARDS you, which can be a very important detail if dragged with high speed on water or land, since it is easier to pull in the same direction you are dragged than against the direction.

Greetings
Toby


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:19 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 143
The first batch of Stage Two control bars were said to have had a design flaw with the lock in strap. (later corrected)

Some have said the X2 bar quick release design may have durability issues since it seems to depend on a rubber tube not getting wollowed out. (jury's still out)

In the real world we know we can't have perfection, especially in a prototype or first edition product. So Toby, what do you see as being the main area of concern with the design of this new bar?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2002 11:36 am 
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good question.
With every new idea of this bar we were faced with whatever can happen situations.
So we tried to think about every possibility.
The belt webbing is very strong, so this will hold quiet a while. The final release is strong as well and can't bent that easy. It may bent, but we tested it with a lot of pressure and could bent it at all. So this should be fine as well.
The Wichard is what it is, so no problem here. The bar has been tested for upt to 900 kgs. The lines are dinema 1, no problems here. The only concern we had was about the balls, so when you are using it, you may squeeze your fingers. That is why we attached now a ring to it to avoid this problem.
For us the bar is solid and every part has been tested and improved, if not safe enough.

Even if you have a sudden release of the Wichard, you either have the kite safe or can get back into the Wichard hook easily with a little practice.

We wouldn't bring this bar on the market, if we see a problem that may occur, Then we would have corrected it. Don't forget, the designer started to think and work on this bar almost one year ago. Mayn possibilities have been tested and improved.

But as you said, noting is 100%, so we might see in the future (hopefully not) were it may have a week part.

Hopefully you can be convinced yourself soon, when you get to test one.

Greetings
Toby


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