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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 457
Location: Munich, Germany
This is what I found just now on the web
<img src="http://www.embado.com/kitesurfkit/chickenrelease/images/ChickenRelease_On-Bar-01_annotated_med.jpg">


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2002 5:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 457
Location: Munich, Germany
More pics and apparently, they want to offer an upgrade service for existing shackles.
For Louis: it is patent pending :grin:

<img src="http://www.embado.com/kitesurfkit/chickenrelease/images/CR-illustration-numbered-med.gif">


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2002 9:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 126
Location: Hurghada, Egypt
Check http://www.chickenrelease.com

Rory who is one of the guys behind it visited Colona Watersports a few weeks ago and I had the chance to look closer at the system.

Looks great and the guys behind it are very serious.

Bengan
http://www.colonawatersports.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2002 9:49 pm 
I recived information about this product and just sent the following message to them:

"Your system looks good. I have being looking for a safe and practical release system that lets you make spins with a kite leash too. I made some protos myself and actually I m using a system that works well and have some particular advantages.
As I found your efforts worthly, I will be pleased to share my idea with you.

First I have some complains on your system.
You wrote:
"Gives a reliable and consistent position for the release mechanism to the rider."

It seems to me that the release (velcro gripped ball) could spin with the loop so its relative position to the rider change from right to left, from up to down. I agree that usually you could fix that and when the loop is under tension is more like one line than two. Another potencial problem could be the safety line tangling with the ball.

Some thoughts:

It is safer to mount the wichard looking to the spreader hook. This puts the release line in a real fixed position. Other benefit is that you have to pull the release line out and not "in". This setup is wildly used and proved to works fine, mostly by non leash users.

The problem is where to attach the leash? You could not attach it to the swiveling eye of the shalcke because it will be gone after release. So?

Part of the solution is the "two QRs in line". The first QR lets go the bar. The second QR (closer to harness) lets go the whole thing (bar and leash). This way you could attach the leash to the swiveling eye of the second (wichard) release and have the whole system (bar & leash) rotate as a unit.

The Second part of the system is the firts or "primary" QR. This one has to:
1- be non rotating (to not change the relationship between the leash attachment and the depower line)
2- be symetrical (to give a consistent position of the release in relationship with the rider)
3- release under full pressure

I have found that a well executed pin and tube release (stronger than the wipi pin&velcro leash release)
have this caracteristics.

Another benefit is that you could detach the whole system in one move (bar & leash). It is not very conmon but I like to have the option (tangled with a motorboat, leashed line broken, etc.)

I hope you understand this explanation (my english is limited).
I will send you a pic of the system if you want."

Regards
Hernan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2002 9:53 pm 
I recived information about this product and just sent the following message to them:

"Your system looks good. I have being looking for a safe and practical release system that lets you make spins with a kite leash too. I made some protos myself and actually I m using a system that works well and have some particular advantages.
As I found your efforts worthly, I will be pleased to share my idea with you.

First I have some complains on your system.
You wrote:
"Gives a reliable and consistent position for the release mechanism to the rider."

It seems to me that the release (velcro gripped ball) could spin with the loop so its relative position to the rider change from right to left, from up to down. I agree that usually you could fix that and when the loop is under tension is more like one line than two. Another potencial problem could be the safety line tangling with the ball.

Some thoughts:

It is safer to mount the wichard looking to the spreader hook. This puts the release line in a real fixed position. Other benefit is that you have to pull the release line out and not "in". This setup is wildly used and proved to works fine, mostly by non leash users.

The problem is where to attach the leash? You could not attach it to the swiveling eye of the shalcke because it will be gone after release. So?

Part of the solution is the "two QRs in line". The first QR lets go the bar. The second QR (closer to harness) lets go the whole thing (bar and leash). This way you could attach the leash to the swiveling eye of the second (wichard) release and have the whole system (bar & leash) rotate as a unit.

The Second part of the system is the firts or "primary" QR. This one has to:
1- be non rotating (to not change the relationship between the leash attachment and the depower line)
2- be symetrical (to give a consistent position of the release in relationship with the rider)
3- release under full pressure

I have found that a well executed pin and tube release (stronger than the wipi pin&velcro leash release)
have this caracteristics.

Another benefit is that you could detach the whole system in one move (bar & leash). It is not very conmon but I like to have the option (tangled with a motorboat, leashed line broken, etc.)

I hope you understand this explanation (my english is limited).
I will send you a pic of the system if you want."

Regards
Hernan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2002 8:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 150
Location: Munich
Quote:
On 2002-08-20 18:09, jever98 wrote:
More pics and apparently, they want to offer an upgrade service for existing shackles.
For Louis: it is patent pending :grin:

Incredible! It's well done but it's just the setup used by at least 20 people i know. Nothing new at all.

I HATE THOSE STUPID PATENTS.

You can get one for every bullshit nowadays

<img src="http://www.embado.com/kitesurfkit/chickenrelease/images/CR-illustration-numbered-med.gif">


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2002 9:06 am 
Hi,

Rory here. Part of the Chicken Release team.
Going to reply to Hernan's post.

"First I have some complains on your system.
You wrote:
"Gives a reliable and consistent position for the release mechanism to the rider."
It seems to me that the release (velcro gripped ball) could spin with the loop so its relative position to the rider change from right to left, from up to down. I agree that usually you could fix that and when the loop is under tension is more like one line than two."

We thought about this. Didn't have a better solution so tested the device as it is.
Doing this with the ball attached to a center line with and without a chicken loop we have never managed to get it to twist away from pretty much exactly the same area / position. Perhaps if the line wasn't under tension it could move, but if it's not under tension, the won't be an immediate need to activate the kite release.

"Another potencial problem could be the safety line tangling with the ball."

Good thought.
Not thought of this, but have also not encountered it. Although to be fair have mostly tested it with a release line that goes to a back line and so to the side of the bar, not straight up past the middle of the bar and therefore the ball.

"Some thoughts:
It is safer to mount the wichard looking to the spreader hook. This puts the release line in a real fixed position. Other benefit is that you have to pull the release line out and not "in". This setup is wildly used and proved to works fine, mostly by non leash users."

Attaching it to the hook means the whole assembly moves away from the rider, so their depower distance starts further away from their body, which gives problems at max depower. ie you really have to lean / bend your body at the waist, towards the kite. That is the main reason we went for moving the shackle back towards the bar. Also some hooks vary, so a system that could be retrofit to all hooks is not as easy to design. Also we believe you should always ride with a safety line.

"The problem is where to attach the leash? "

Our system lets the leash be attached above the swivel point so that you can do spins .... The safety line / leash has a split pin release if you want to detach from that as well.

"You could not attach it to the swiveling eye of the shalcke because it will be gone after release. So?

Part of the solution is the "two QRs in line". The first QR lets go the bar. The second QR (closer to harness) lets go the whole thing (bar and leash). This way you could attach the leash to the swiveling eye of the second (wichard) release and have the whole system (bar & leash) rotate as a unit."

One problem with 2 Wichard shackles is cost.
It's the highest cost item in the device and 2 means ..... We have looked @ what you say, but couldn't see any added value.

The Second part of the system is the firts or "primary" QR. This one has to:
1- be non rotating (to not change the relationship between the leash attachment and the depower line)
2- be symetrical (to give a consistent position of the release in relationship with the rider)
3- release under full pressure

I have found that a well executed pin and tube release (stronger than the wipi pin&velcro leash release)
have this caracteristics.

- Yes, but where do you attach a safety line / release for still having the kite attached but de-powered ?

Another benefit is that you could detach the whole system in one move (bar & leash). It is not very conmon but I like to have the option (tangled with a motorboat, leashed line broken, etc.)

- hence our folded over pin release on the safety line.

I hope you understand this explanation (my english is limited).

- hopefully I have. Thanks.

I will send you a pic of the system if you want."

Yes please.
Please email me, rory@chickenrelease.com

Many thanks for your input.

Rory


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2002 9:11 am 
I have to say that I was expecting more! After all the hype & build up all they have done is welded a small loop onto the Wichard.

Not a bad idea for a home made device, but for a comercial product?????????????
I was expecting more!

There are 2 potential problems I can see with this system.
1-When the Wichard is under tension they tend not to spin very well which may cause the depower line to wrap around the center line after multiple loops.
2-The pull chord looks too long & seems likely to clash with your body. Not to mention the tripple action on the release - grab ball & pull to release velcro, move hand towards you, & pull hard across body to release.

Anyone know how much they are charging for this?

Radman


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2002 9:12 am 
Reply to Louis comment re patent.

Yeah, lots of beach users are doing similar to what we are proposing.

But I suggest that some elements are new and novel. We have sheathed wire cable loop to release the shackle. Attaching the release loop to the chicken loop / centre line as we have .....

The only reason for the patent is so that we don't invest in R&D / production .... and then one of the big kite companies takes the idea, and leaves us behind with a pile of bills and no revenue.

The dull and I agree unfortunate reality of wanting to get something to market that we believe will make it safer for everybody.

We believe that yes you can DIY Make one yourself, but enough people won't or will do so badly or will do so not as well as we think we've sorted it out. And then they won't be as safe for themselves and others.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2002 9:21 am 
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Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 457
Location: Munich, Germany
Rory,

Suggestion: add a way of detaching the safety in case of danger. You never know...
Cheers
Nico


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