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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2002 9:56 am 
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good point Nico, if you want to call it a safety system, than make it safe!
Of course you need a release for the safety as well.

Just imagine Silke's accident:
both have a quick release for the depower, both pull it and are now permanently attached to the kites. Since two kites are tangled, the bars slide away and may tangle that way that the kites still have power and drag both over the beach, and they can't release it.....

If you want to commercialise it, make it real safe!

What is the price for it?

Greetings
Toby


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2002 10:05 am 
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Don't know the price.
But on the other hand, it could be good to combine it with the KSP bar. Then, you have the nice cover for the existing hook, etc.

Toby, has delivery of the bars started already? Can you give us an indication of how many have been sold?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2002 10:09 am 
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I am sure they covered the safety leash aspect when they said:

"Our system lets the leash be attached above the swivel point so that you can do spins .... The safety line / leash has a split pin release if you want to detach from that as well."

As for the patent, the previous snap shackle did not allow for freespinning, and the welding on is actually a damn good idea I think. Often the most effect ideas are the simplest. (The paperclip won invention of the century and all it is, is a bent piece of wire using your explanation of the simplistic change to the snap shackle) The laws behind patents is someone can patent an existing design if they make a change to it, that upgrades the design. In this case, they are using existing Wichards, so they are nto infringing on his original patent as they are buying his original equipment and bringing him business.

Also very interested to hear about cost. The Wichard is expensive, but I have one purely because I believe safety often outweighs cost. Besides, with equipment costing around a 1000 quid for a kite, this is fractional.

Give us some estimates on costs!!!!!! grrrrr

he he


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2002 10:13 am 
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Quote:
On 2002-08-21 10:12, Anonymous wrote:
Reply to Louis comment re patent.

Thanks for your reply.

>Yeah, lots of beach users are doing similar >to what we are proposing.

>But I suggest that some elements are new and >novel. We have sheathed wire cable loop to >release the shackle. Attaching the release >loop to the chicken loop / centre line as we >have .....

I really don't want to affront you believe me. I'm really glad about every nice soution which gives us more safety. But those details are not really an invention. Those are nice Details. And the main point in patents is the inventory value and that it's NEW

>The only reason for the patent is so that we >don't invest in R&D / production .... and >then one of the big kite companies takes the >idea, and leaves us behind with a pile of >bills and no revenue.

I really can understand this point of view. My criticism is more general. I think those patents aren't worth a penny. If the big companies want, they just abuse your patent or find a way to bypass it.
You (the small companies) try to protect yourself by patenting your inventions. You invest lots of money in making a patent. Another problem is, that patents like yours (i don't know the exact text of it) often can't stand recission. So the only use of those patents is to make patent- offices rich.

>The dull and I agree unfortunate reality of >wanting to get something to market that we >believe will make it safer for everybody.

>We believe that yes you can DIY Make one >yourself, but enough people won't or will do >so badly or will do so not as well as we >think we've sorted it out. And then they >won't be as safe for themselves and others.

I COMPLETELY agree with you in this point. As i already pointed out i'm really glad about every nice, commerccially available solution like yours

I wish you the best bringing you solution to market

Greetzzzz,

Louis


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2002 10:25 am 
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Quote:

"Our system lets the leash be attached above the swivel point so that you can do spins .... The safety line / leash has a split pin release if you want to detach from that as well."




ok, if it has it (can't see it on the pic) then it is fine and can be called safety.

Nico,
the delivery will start in about 10 days.
The first bars we currently produce will be given to the riders at the Kitesurf Trophy.
Then we will supply the orders and shops.
When you see a demonstration of it, you will be more intersted in it, since just from pictures and our comments it may sounds nice but not perfect. The demonstration is real and will answer all your questions and worries.
Are you coming to Fehmarn this weekend?

Cheers
Toby


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2002 10:33 am 
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Naah, it's too far. And the wind looks good for the Silvaplana :smile:
Anyway, I am quite happy with my standard X2 setup. I like the option to unhook (whilst always using a leash).
Also, I used to have a Wichard and it released on me by accident once - not very nice.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2002 10:48 am 
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as long as you are happy with it,stay with it.

Greetings
Toby


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