Latest NEWS for the Spider Competition bar !!

[Louis Cypher]

Hi Manfred,

yeah, your right. We stop that discussion. I just disliked that argument But that doesn't really matter.

If i have any chance to test your bar i of course will do! I'm allways interested in good solutions. For myself the bar looks a little bit to complicated at the moment. But if performance is really better than with "standard"- bars why not having a few lines more.

Did you ever test it with an ARC? ARC is completely different from other kites because forces on backlines are nearly zero. (I never thaught my arms could get tired as long as i just have flown ARC. Now i know they can! (flying Toro actually)) I tried a flysurfer- like forceless depower- setup and it didn't work at all because of the low backlineforces. You had to pull the bar off to depower! Strange feeling man!

I'm on Silvaplana with Jever98 this weekend. Are you there?

Greeetzzzzz Louis

[funalex]

hello!

i believe in that type of bar, i will try to create a copy just for fun and if it is really better for tube kites (the market you must aim to is tube-kite) i will post a mail on this forum.

i'm happy to see people wanting to make the kitesurf going better and better.(for paraglider)

[Guest]

Hey Diablo,

I mostly fly softkites on water and they all have nearly no forces on the break lines.

I dont understand why you are surprised that you have to push the flysurfer bar to depower the kite. A forceless depower is in balance. If you want to move a balanced system you have to add some forces to kill the balance no matter what direction you want to go. Perhaps you spent too much attention to dynymics, that you forgot everything about statics.(Sorry,just a joke I could not stop)

Its the same on the SPIDER COMPETITION. The forces are very low because of the stainless steel roller bearings but they exist. On kites with very high forces on the break lines like the naish kites the bar slowly begins to move in direction of low power when you take the hands off the bar in high power mode.

I will have to be in the shop on Saturday and in the afternoon I must give a beginners course and an advanced kite course.
So I will be busy until 20.00 in the evening.
Silvaplana is too far just to go there for a sunday afternoon. It takes me 4 hours just to go there. I got too much jobs in the moment, I dont know where to start. It is more than a year ago that I was paragliding the last time and I miss it. But I got no time to go.

Hope we will see some day !

Greetings to you and Jever 98. Have a lot of fun in Silvaplana.

Manfred

[Paraflysurf]

Hai out there,

I got a lot of mails from people that told me they did not understand how the PBS-System and the depower system on the SPIDER-Competition works. So I will give a detailed describtion here :

On the NEW SPIDER COMPETITION you have the Depower System (DPS) and the Progressive Brake System (PBS). Both systems work together. The frontlines run through the bar over closed and waterproved stainless steel ball bearings. They get in at the bar tips and leave the bar in the middle in direction of the pilot. With a knot they form a small loop outside the bar. On this loop you connect your quick release and fix it on your harness. You need the knot, not to let the forces running from right to left side. If you push away the bar after you are connected, the lenghts of the frontlines that show in direction of the kite is shortened and the lenghts of the lines near to the pilot is increased. This is half of the depower system (still not working without the PBS). You can understand how the forceless depower works. The bar is held by the forces on the frontlines as long as there are forces on both sides, the pilot side and the kite side. No matter how strong the forces on the kite are, there are always the same forces on the other side and there is a balance.

On the BPS the breaklines are connected to the frontlines over a moveable knot. The left brake on the right front line and the right on the left front line. From this knot the break line runs across to a pulley on the other side and from there in the direction of the kite. Thats why the lines form a cross in the middle.

If you now move the bar parallel to the kite the brakes are activated or deactivated depending on the direction and now your DPS works. Because the knots on the frontlines that hold the break lines are moving while braking and the breaksytem itself is fixed, there is a changing in angle on the X formed by the two break lines in the middle. If you push away the bar very far, the lines will become parallel. If you now steer the kite, there is no influence of the break lines, you got a 2-liner kite. If you take the bar closer to you the break lines begin to run through the pulley when you steer. If you steer right, the breaklines on the right are pulled by the left front line that now runs in direction of the kite and you have a turning support by the right brake. The more you tear the bar to you, the stronger the influence of the break gets. If you tear the bar as much as you already run in power mode ( both brakes activated while crusing along) and then steer in one direction, the break on this direction is activated even more while the other side is deactivated at the same time. So the kite will brake on one side and accelerate on the other side. This leads to fabulous turn times and a very direct handling.

Because of Mr Sinus and Mr Cosinus the influence of the brakes can be tuned by the position of the knot on the front line-part of the PBS. The bigger kite you use the more you have to position the knot away from the bar. To stay in the same steering position as before, you have to change the knot on the break line, where your flight line is connected, too. So you can use the bar for all of your kites and kite sizes. If you tried to fly a stuntkite with the tuning for a 10.0 Softkite you may not even think on steering and the kite will begin to fly loops and if you use the stuntkite tuning for a 10.0 softkite it will move more than lazy.

I hope I could answer all questions concerning the NEW SPIDER COMPETITION bar.
If not, go on asking me or wait until it comes to the shops to test it.

You can buy the bar in prototype state now.

I am working on a serial version that will be a little cheaper but it will take some more time.
Anyway the SPIDER-COMPETITION bar is the cheapest on the market because you can use one bar for all of your kites.

Kindly regards
Manfred

[Guest]

Hi Manfred,

sorry but you got me wrong. I'm not surprised about needing to push to change depowerposition. I understood that system well and i used it more than a year (Flysurfer Speedair 9.0) What I'm talking about is to need force to HOLD the depowerposition of the bar!

Furtheron a Flysurfer has EXACTLY the same forces on brakelines than on frontlines! Otherwise it wouldn't be possible to keep depower in balance (the thing with the statics ).

And now to the main point( I asked that min. 5 times until now *g*): If a flysurfer (equal forces on brake and frontlines) is in balance with your bar and a naish (high brakelineforces) moves the bar to lowpower (like with normal setup) a ARC (nearly no brakelineforces) moves the Bar to HIGH- POWER! Or am i wrong (don't say yes; i want to understand it!)?

Greeeetzzzzz

Louis

P.S.: We agreed in stopping those stupid jokes about dynamics/ statics....... So why do you start again? If you would have tried to read my posting carefully you could have answered my question ;-/

On 2002-08-30 23:53, Anonymous wrote:
Hey Diablo,


I mostly fly softkites on water and they all have nearly no forces on the break lines.

I dont understand why you are surprised that you have to push the flysurfer bar to depower the kite. A forceless depower is in balance. If you want to move a balanced system you have to add some forces to kill the balance no matter what direction you want to go. Perhaps you spent too much attention to dynymics, that you forgot everything about statics.(Sorry,just a joke I could not stop)

Its the same on the SPIDER COMPETITION. The forces are very low because of the stainless steel roller bearings but they exist. On kites with very high forces on the break lines like the naish kites the bar slowly begins to move in direction of low power when you take the hands off the bar in high power mode.

I will have to be in the shop on Saturday and in the afternoon I must give a beginners course and an advanced kite course.
So I will be busy until 20.00 in the evening.
Silvaplana is too far just to go there for a sunday afternoon. It takes me 4 hours just to go there. I got too much jobs in the moment, I dont know where to start. It is more than a year ago that I was paragliding the last time and I miss it. But I got no time to go.

Hope we will see some day !

Greetings to you and Jever 98. Have a lot of fun in Silvaplana.

Manfred

[Paraflysurf]

Hai Diablo,

answer for your question.

A kite wih low forces on the brakelines is not able to move the bar. The only one who can change the "power lever" bar is the pilot itself.

Its right what you say, but the ARC is not able to move the bar if you take your hands off. I tried it in La Franqui/France with an 11.2.

No more jokes a bout dynamics, I promise !!

Manfred

[Louis Cypher]

Ciao Manfredo

.... and ther ewill be peace on earth...... *sing* *sing*

Thanks for your answer. Did you try it with a well powered ARC too? As i already mentioned i tried somethin' similar. I built up a flysurfer like bar with "balanced" depower (worked on my GUN 7.5; uuuhhhh what an awfull kite =-/ ) and tested it with my powered up ARC. Due to all the power beeing on the frontlines it pulled the bar to me like hell. Man, that's a stupid feeling! If your triceps is getting tired the kite gets more powered! That's a good one for hellbound bastards *g*

Think we have to meet soon. Want to test your system!
Greeetzzzzz luzius cyprius

On 2002-09-02 16:09, Paraflysurf wrote:
Hai Diablo,

answer for your question.

A kite wih low forces on the brakelines is not able to move the bar. The only one who can change the "power lever" bar is the pilot itself.

Its right what you say, but the ARC is not able to move the bar if you take your hands off. I tried it in La Franqui/France with an 11.2.

No more jokes a bout dynamics, I promise !!

Manfred

[Paraflysurf]

Ciao Luzius,

sorry, I dont want to offend you, but perhaps you did something wrong with your self made Flysurfer bar. Perhaps you forgot the little pulley on the chicken loop ?!?
I am not a Flysurfer fan but I also got a Mastair and I must admit the system works. The kite does not fly as good as it does with the spider bar, but it works.

If you calculate the frontline-forces on the bar, the system is in balance as long there are no forces on the brake lines (I know, I know, but lets forget the friction). If the brake line forces get strong, the balance is blown away.
Perhaps the forces on the rear lines of your ARC are stronger than you think. That could be the reason why the bar is moving to you. The perfect training for your trizeps.

Greatings

Manfred


_________________
ENGINEERING SERVICES-ESM
"Paraflysurf"
Switzerland

http://www.paraflysurf.ch
mm@paraflysurf.ch
0041/79/4522713

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Paraflysurf on 2002-09-03 02:14 ]</font>

[Paraflysurf]

Hai Luzius,

can you send me a "SKIZZE" of your selfmade bar, perhaps I can solve your problems.

When I used the big ARC with the SPIDER bar, it was very comfortable and it worked.

M.M.

[Paraflysurf]

Hai out there,

the next generation of SPIDER Competition bars is on the market.

- New Bearing blocks
- New telescopeable winder on bar tips

Features :

- 2 independent safety systems
- Depower- / Power up-system
- PBS-Progressive Brake System
- Single- or Dual-brake use
- Telescope-winder on bar tips
- Turn-Rate-Tuning inflight
- 2-Liner- /4-Liner mode variation inflight
- 1 bar for all Kite-Sizes
- Weight : 500 gramms, Lenghts : 700 mm, Diameter : 30 mm











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