*


All times are UTC + 1 hour



Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 1:54 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 29207
Location: World (KF Admin)
we jus had/are having a discussion at the German forum http://www.kitesurfing-kiel.de
about using safety.

I initially made a comment that leashes will/should be required soon or otherwise this wil happen to a non-leash rider:
Image

then some stupid comments were made and we started the discussion about that it is not ok for the future od our sport to ride without safety.

I don't have to think about it, for me it is 100% - no leash, kiteboarding dies...

What does everyone here think about this issue?

Thx
Toby


{ SHARE_ON_FACEBOOK } { SHARE_ON_TWITTER } { SHARE_ON_ORKUT } { SHARE_ON_DIGG } { SHARE_ON_MYSPACE } { SHARE_ON_DELICIOUS }
Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:09 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2185
Location: Spain/Italy
I dunno Toby, I think a leash is a great idea and always use mine but as long as we see pro's and legendary manufacturers riding without one ain't that sort of encouraging us to look cool too, you know like riding a bike without a helmet, be a rebel, live on the edge?
There are many pretty good safety systems around that could have saved a lot of lives.
Maybe one day it will be compulsory to use a leash as it's getting to use a snap shackle in some areas (here 4 ex. which I think is wrong, imo) and then everyone will use one. Going back to the helmet example, why do you put your helmet on when you get on your bike, because the law says you have to and you'll get fined if you don't, or because it will most probably save your life if you get knocked off your bike?
There are some compromises, like the rope handles that pull on the lines to depower the kite, but that won't stop your kite flying away and doing damage if you miss it, what are they called by the way, handle pass leashes?


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:14 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 29207
Location: World (KF Admin)
I don't get it, how does this leash work?

I agree, that I guess one day ir will be law to use a leash.
maybe not everywhere but at pact places.
If there is space, do whatever you want to, if no-one is around.

But the manufacturer and pros pla a big role in this.
They should for the sport themselves and others use a leash.
I don't think it is cool anymore to ride without, but with it!

They should think about it and show us a good will.

Thx for your input.
Toby


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:32 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2185
Location: Spain/Italy
What I call the handle pass leash is a rope handle that pulls one of the brake lines a kite length (or whole line length) longer, a bit like the slingshot leash system which is attatched to the rider at the wrist or harness, this isn't, if you want to depower the kite you grab the handle.
Just had a quick flick through a few old kite mags and you know how many riders, pros and non, were using leashes, no one (that means not even one). What's worse is that manufaturers who sell you a working leash with the kite, and a big disclaimer in the manual, don't use it, not even for the promo photo shoot, hey man wouldn't look cool 4 the pics would it?
Any manufacturers/retailers on the forum like to answer this?

Getting back to the helmet example, if Valentino or any other pro rider got caught without their helmet, imagine how they'd get hammered by the press.

Basically I would prefer less legistlation and better examples.


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:34 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 8233
Location: Florida
Hello Toby,

I think a shift towards more common leash use among experienced riders is starting to occur. There will be holdouts. Hopefully, participation in competitions without basic safety gear will become a thing of the past soon. I sincerely hope that the kiteboarding press and manufacturers start to display use of proper safety gear in photos and advertisements. I think this will start to become more common as well, eventually. It all comes down to being responsible, maintaining reasonable safety and protecting access. There is no end of extreme enjoyment to be had in this sport while still taking reasonable precautions. There really is nothing to give up here that isn't worth giving up for protection of safety and our access.

I was debating about throwing this out, but we really should understand and appreciate what is truly at risk so here goes. What happens if a runaway kite line wraps someone's neck and cuts, just a little bit? How much of a cut does it take to open a jugular vein? I suspect not much of a cut at all. If you cut this vessel you will be done in a short time. Lines have cut into much tougher tissue/bone and materials, e.g. boards with ease, many times already. Getting some lines caught over the head of a bystander from a runaway kite can happen very easily.

We have been so very lucky to date. Luck does not last forever in anything. We need to use leashes to protect other riders and bystanders and to maintain our privalege to shred at will.


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:44 pm 
Seinfeld brings up a lovely comment regarding helmets (I don't think he knows about leashes) in general, this goes as follows:

Humans must be the only creatures that have helmets. Normal logic would dictate, if you are doing something that would potentially break your head, stop doing it! Noooo, humans are different, we'd rather continue with our head breaking antics, but incorporate head protecting devices.

If this wasn't bad enough, they now impose helmet laws in certain areas like motorcycling and construction sites. So basically what we are saying is that some people are too stupid to wear helmets so we force them to. This may not sound that bad, but if you take this logic a little further, you will understand that in insense, we are protecting a brain, which is rarely ever used, from an impact which might just do the gene pool a favour if it happened.


Top
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:48 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2185
Location: Spain/Italy
Well something like that happened here last summer. On an onshore day in mid summer a runnaway kite flew into the packed umbrellas of a bathing establishment with loads of old folks just relaxing in the sun, bet that woke 'em up fast. An old lady got her neck and shoulder pretty badly cut by a flying line and went to hospital. We got in the papers and the kite rider got taken to court. The old lady is asking damages, got plastic surgery etc, don't know how much she's asking but I wouldn't like to be in his straps.
No talk of bans yet, but now on onshore days in summer the owners of the bathing establishments and the lifeguards just basically phone the coast guard as soon as we launch, so we can have fun racing them in their launches.
Jo


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:48 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 29207
Location: World (KF Admin)
I think mags shouldn't show anymore picture if you don't use a leash.
And i guess using no leash in the US will be a thrill and will cost tons of money.
I wouldn't risk it for not wearing a leash.....since there are systems out where rotations aren't a prob anymore.

Toby


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 4:21 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 249
The mags are just as much a slave to the industry as the kitesurfers are, they wouldn't get much advertising revenue if they refused to publish ads containing unleashed riders, they also would not be able to show many contest shots or other photo shoots, would you buy a mag with no pics in it?

The only people that could make a difference are the manufacturers and the contest organisers. But seeing as there are already more than one series of pro contests competing to create the 'World champ' I guess the organisers cant afford to hold the pro's to ransom too much on this issue.

So if it all boils down to the manufacturers, by forcing their team riders to wear leashes they give them a distinct disadvantage in contests which will effect their results and ultimately reduce the marketing success and profit margin, so I cant see that happening.

What I'm trying to say I guess is that it's not going to happen overnight but with continued pressure from all round the tide of safety will eventually turn and head in the right direction.

Actually there is one set of people who can force a quick change in attitude to safety and they are the insurance companies, all it will take is one big lawsuit by a injured third party at a contest and the insurance companies will probably refuse or invalidate a policy for a contest that does not enforce riders to take 'resonable care' (leash their kites)to prevent injuries to others.

Sean


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 4:49 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 1:00 am
Posts: 29207
Location: World (KF Admin)
Hey Sean,

I believe you can have pretty the same pictures if you are leashed.
Sure, the mags are slaves of the industry, but when they say, hey, we don't put any unleashed pics in, I'm sure they will provide other pics with leash.
It is not that much of pressure to the industry.
For the pros you need more pressure.
The PKRA is organized by Pros, so no help here.
but other tours should be able to do it.
It worked with the Kitesurf Trophy, why not with any other tour?

Greetings
Toby


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 22 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, loco4viento, p300, quicky and 29 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group