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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:53 pm 
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I think it would be great to get organized, actually the only way forward. However I see potential problems. In Ostia (Italy), when Kiting was still allowed, the only club with a so called corridor (6-7 meters) charged an entrance fee. Unless you know someone important... Bothe the corridor and the fee are ridiculous

The other thing is I've tried to suggest (nicely) safety features like kite leashes, but everyone knows best. Seems like a lot of people in this sport can afford to buy equipement when they please should they trash their kites when letting them fly away...
And it seems that riders are compeled to jump right next to the beach.
The option of body dragging is a problem when wind is on-shore.
Take a while to get far enough...


I think there are serious hurdles. Attitudes and egoism. (not only in Kiting).
Kiting is an extreme activity. If everyone had some kind of respect and Common sense, there would be very few problems. Alas

There are, along the Italian coastline, stretches of open beaches left to their own. We're talking Rubbish dumps here. There's enough crap on these beaches to open a recycling plant. They are generally not too frequented...Is there any way that Associations could be allowed to use those beaches in return for looking after them? Again this is in a perfect world 'cause I'm pretty sure that most kite yielding homo sapiens would turn lift their nose at such a proposal..."What clean the beach so we can kite?.... Rather pay!!

My 2 cents


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:10 pm 
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ced1 wrote:

There are, along the Italian coastline, stretches of open beaches left to their own. We're talking Rubbish dumps here. There's enough crap on these beaches to open a recycling plant. They are generally not too frequented...Is there any way that Associations could be allowed to use those beaches in return for looking after them? Again this is in a perfect world 'cause I'm pretty sure that most kite yielding homo sapiens would turn lift their nose at such a proposal..."What clean the beach so we can kite?.... Rather pay!!

My 2 cents


There is precident for restoring distressed beach areas. Notably, kitebeach at Maui or lower Kanaha Beach was strewn with debris, a few abandoned cars and homeless encampments. Local kiters moved in and cleaned the place up and keep it that way I understand. There is still the leaky sewage treatment plant but then again there are those marvelous Maui winds to compensate.

Kitebeach at Lakesbay, NJ, USA was or perhaps still is a distressed area. I understand that local kiters banded together to negotiate with authoriites to designate a kiting area, along with extensive plans to clean up the launch area, etc.

If you have unused beach front, it would be great to try to negotiate for a designated launch there. It is a lot of work starting out and going into the future but ultimately it should be worth it. If necessary restrict access to club members with minimum tested skills or require that they be under training. Use the dues to maintain the launch area and keep access open. The public sector likes good works like this sort of cleanup. Martin Kirk has made lots of friends in this way in Maui. The same could be done elsewhere in the world.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:27 pm 
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cleaning up a beach and making a kitebeach sounds like a great chance.
Not everyone will have that chance. So take it if you can!!!

Keep us informed if it worked out.

Greets
Toby


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 7:38 pm 
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Location: Italy; Amundson 5'6'' Naish Helix ltd 9
Hi Joe, we have had the first meeting with the regional(Friuli) commander of the harbour last year,He judge us positively,he say they know about us and they apreciated owr decision to kitesurf on the island out of the beach crowd they also apreciated the fact we asked a meeting to present our association and what we do.(this is a point many other club should do).
He say they try to tutelate us as much as they can.
This year he suggest us the ''training spot way''.
So we went to the local commander but he say there are no free areas on the beach, the whole beach is under concession to privates and we should ask them for a permission and after this they give us the permission for the launch corridor.
In the wile we can go on kiting in the island since we do not create troubles and do not kiting into the harbour channel (2500.00 €uro fine)
The important thing by now is that when someone go into some spot, he knows were to go and were not.
I've renounced to my home spot wich was the windsurf school at 20mt from my home since I didn't want other people follow my example and go kiting in the beach.
Tux


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:09 pm 
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Hi Papi,
Not kiting if you're not at a level where you would be safe in crowded conditions is definately admirable, you could try finding a less crowded beach or kite in the evening, towards the end of august it should be less of a problem anyway.

Ced,
I don't know about Ostia but in the Rimini harbour office regulations it says that all the corridors must be free access so if your local regulations state this the people who have the corridor can't charge fees, check it out.

Tux, that definately goes to show that if you get organised even on a lovcal level and talk to the authorities you can reach an agreement. The comander even suggested the beat way of getting a kitebeach.

The idea of proposing cleaning up abandoned shoreline is great.
Thanks Rick


Last edited by Mr Jo Macdonald on Tue Aug 12, 2003 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 8:39 pm 
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I have a better idea:

follow Lou (chop your lines).

One kite (100 ft lines) takes up enough beach for 30-40ppl (hypothetical)
1: 40 tough odds even if we are saints.


one kite at 50 ft
1: 20 better, not great, but better
one at 25ft
1:10 those are odds we can work with especially sinse other sports
PWC
parasail
sailing (cats etc)
take up around the same amount of space.

and don't tell me kiting won't work on short lines. It may not be as good but it will work and as mfc get better at designing kites for short lines the performance will come back.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2003 10:50 am 
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This will probably go over about as well as a bad fart in bed but how about using an anchored boat and a raft. Everybody locally pitches in to pay for it or takes turns running the boat. If you are far enough offshore there are very few things to run into making it a lot safer as well. There are probably more extensive setups to be invented in the future as more people want to try the sport and more people who want to satisfy that demand.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2003 12:36 pm 
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Location: Isle of Sylt, Germany
Here at my place - the island of Sylt - there is much tourism and the best places for kiting are also the best places for windsurfing. But there is lots of place, so what I did together with the windsurf instructor and the kite instructor was to take two steps, a third step is to come.

First we put up a sign - Kiteboarding area! This area is about 200 meters (600 feet) away from the main windsurf area and, this is important, from a beach were in the summer many people like to go, to watch relatives and friends windsurfing.
Image

Second, on the windsurfing area it self there is another sign - no Kiteboarding within 100 meters (300 feet) to the right and to the left.

It is important to mention that the whole area is to a certain degree private property, so if any one goes against the rules, its easy, he will be banned from this place as there is only one tiny street to get there and on this street there is a house were everyone is obliged to pay some tax.

Besisdes an important thing, as the owner, (on the sign: der Eigentümer) put the sign up under his name we have gained automativally some kind of an official status, in other words, it has been accepted that kitesurfing will take place. This was not sure in the past!

The signs are up there since may 2003. We have almost 100% success! Almost no one is ignoring this rules. I am very happy.

And now some bad news.
There is another place to get in the water, were there are no signs, yet... Because at this place kiters are puting their kites up next to the only way to acces the beach, and this IS dangerous as WE know. Sometime there are like 10 or 20 tourists looking around the beatifull beach and some kiters will start the kites right over the heads. Unfortunetely many of the locals are doing it too. No way to get them to start their kites 50 meters away! Where thers is plenty of space. As I asked one of them quite firmly not to start his kite over peoples heads he pushed me around, told me to shut up otherwise he would hit me. Taff job. So I got the owner to get there and hope to get some new signs...

So, when any autority is in charge, everything is easier, I would like to have locals beeing carefull by themselves, but that the way it goes...


Last edited by Sylt Rider on Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2003 8:44 pm 
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MadMick wrote:
Could be some serious bans coming up on Maui !!

Council is looking at banning lessons on the beach on the weekends and holidays!!

What next?


I just received some details about the situation in Maui. It largely comes down to, too many people trying to use limited park areas at the same time. A lot of commercial operators, many without business permits, involved in kayaking, diving, surfing in particular are consuming a lot of the limited parking spaces at county parks. This naturally is causing quite a few complaints among residents. Apparently most of the attention is being brought by commercial operators other than kiteboarding instructors.

As a result, commercial operations may be excluded from some parks with very limited parking and high resident useage. Stopping commercial operations from doing business at all country parks is under consideration on weekends and holidays to attempt to reduce congestion and to facilitate resident access. Apparently, windsurfing operations voluntarily undertook something like this on Saturdays or Sundays ten to fifteen years ago. So, it appears to be a larger issue than just kiteboarding however commercial instruction of kiteboarding will likely be effected by new ordances if they are brought into effect.

Good luck in Italy and elsewhere on access issues arising from still other causes. Congratulations on your successful designated launch area on Sylt Island. Good luck in resolving things at the other launch area.


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