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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 5:53 am 
kitepower wrote:
Lets see if we can have a civil interaction Fokiten?
I do agree with a lot of what you say, but not all of it and there is no need for the super aggro confusing descritions ok?
I do not have the luxury of lots of wide open beaches, unlike where you and your buddies teach.
We need to get people up to speed on a small slowish trainer like the Ozone Imp, or a bigger Little Devil.
Last season we did several hundred lessons there is big demand here, I need to be able to send people away to more deserted locations to get their basic skills.
We also have been doing this for over 10 years, I do know how to teach mate.
A trainer is not necessary for all people, only those that have NO previous experience with kites or wind sports.
A trainer kite is as real as your big kiteboarding kite, maybe you do not see it that way but that is a fact.
People that heve previous kite flying experience learn the fastest - fact!
However they do not necessarily progress to be the best kiteboarders.
If you have issues with the speed of trainers and space, use thick 500lb lines, and use lines no longer than 15-20M, even shorter to start with?
My only motive is not to lock horns with you, just to add my valuable experience to the pool of communications here ok?





fokiten wrote:
alinsley wrote:
Fo,

I normally agree with you on many of your points.

But it is my opinion that you are WRONG on this one. Steve and Traig are closer to the truth this time.

I am from the school that an inexpensive trainer kite is one of the best investments in kitesurfing.

I am also from the school that a group lesson to get the basics and then one-on-one coaching to get to the next step is the very best way to safely and quickly develop basic kiteflying skills. I agree with you - trainer kites are fast and sketchy - non-crowded spots only.

I do think that taking beginners into the ocean and giving them a full-sized kite is a bad way to go. You are right that it freaks the beginner out just enough to learn to respect the kite (a very good thing). But the only reason this is happening is because the beginner is getting hauled around by this big kite, seemingly at random because they don't understand what is going on (a very bad thing). That sounds to me like an accident waiting to happen.

But I think we both agree that kitesurfing is pretty much always an accident waiting to happen, and the trick is to use your judgement and experience to talk your ego away from doing something REALLY stupid.

But beginners don't have any judgement or experience, only ego - so they need the help of those more experienced - hopefully good schools/instructors/locals.

Cheers,
Alan


Hi alan,

It's ok man I just have my views on stuff it's ok to disagree,,,
So many are enamored with the beniffits of trainer kite that perhaps I should post my objections so that you all show me my error
I'm here to learn as well as give you guys a raft of shit,smile

My premise is you must learn to handle a real kite in real wind to kitesurf nothing short of that is REQUIRED,,,in other words you do not have to be compitent with a trainer to kitesurf,,, you just plain old every day DON"T need this skill period,,end of story,,,TRUTH,,absolute FACT,,

PLUS TRAINER KITES ARE:

1. trainers are two line kites>>a world away from a four line kite
2. trainers a lighting fast>>>>A world away form a full size kite
3, trainer let you get away with a trip through the zone>>>>this is false imput and just plain stupid to let a new guy think HEY? i can really handle this baby,,,,
4. Trainers are dangerious on a beach with people (nearlyall beaches have people)
5, you get to thinking beach kiting is fun>>BAD Mojo
6. if you CAN fly a trainner you may still get fucking wacked first srote with a real kite TRUTH
7. Thats enough for now I could go on and on,,
* you have to untrain,,trainer habits to get the dude safe on a real kite


OK if you can ignore these facts and still think beach trainig is a good
you see things different you are not of my mind
Who knows
may-be you could explain it for me?
Thanks
fokiten


Hey Steve,,
First things first,, this forum is entertainment for me, I'm not here to make pals or be popular,, I'm here to rock and roll,, I go ballistic cause I want to,,I'm fucking falling down laughing somethimes,, my monkey's got a prop me up,,, so take it how you will I ain't gonna change,,arrgo is ergo my thing,,
look, fuck,, who cares your stuck with a small beach???? That don't make it best,,,I'm talking best,,the best is water trainig that has not changed,,,
what your doing is making concessions ,,,,well,,Right???
you actually agree with me!!! your pissed about your beach,,Right??
ahh, Get a Boat?? eh? Look,,,,peace you're gonna do what you do,,
you're still rigging downwind,,Right ?? you ain't gonna change shit, about your program,, I'm just here to say what's best that's all,
You don't like it that's fine with me,, I get to go off in your direction,,that's fun for me...so Steve I'll buy you a beer if we ever meet I owe you that much for the joy you've given me,,
go jiggle, smile
fokiten


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:38 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 1:00 am
Posts: 659
fokiten wrote:
First things first,, this forum is entertainment for me


Entertainment - can you not see the end is nigh!!!! This is serious!

LEASH THIS NOW OR BE FOREVER DAMNED!!!

Autumns a commin' its gonna get wiiiiiiiindy :thumb:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:46 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2717
Location: Retailer/distributor
Hey Fokiten
Over here jiggling is making a cup o tea mate, so thanks. Its a sad thing if you think your aggro attitude really worries me, or that you think it is entertaining, it just makes people write you off and ignore your valuable lessons and experience.
If it is only about entertaining you, bummer, I thought you really cared about safety and the unnessecary accidents? You do care about the future of the sport or not?

I have a very nice zodiac and 25HP Merc, thanks.
I have to work with small beach, lots of look at me show offs who jump into my students and then yell at them.
My students are not rushed into the water, but they are moved through the kite flying on land as quickly and as safely as possible. There is no way I am going to waste my valuable time and my students taking them out in the water if they are stuck in the midset of trying to steer a kite like their car!
You do it your way in your location, great. Allow me the same rights OK, and I know what works best in my location.
I am not stuck on rigging downwind, never do it, never recommend it, it is always straight upwind or side upwind.
I will try using the method you are trying to describe to everyone, I do understand what you are saying I was just trying to get you to explain so that everyone can understand OK?
Why because anything that helps avoid rigging errors is a good thing!! :thumb:
Now I will just go and have a jiggle with my partner/wife :bye: :bye:
I will remember you said you will shout me a beer!




fokiten wrote:
kitepower wrote:
Lets see if we can have a civil interaction Fokiten?
I do agree with a lot of what you say, but not all of it and there is no need for the super aggro confusing descritions ok?
I do not have the luxury of lots of wide open beaches, unlike where you and your buddies teach.
We need to get people up to speed on a small slowish trainer like the Ozone Imp, or a bigger Little Devil.
Last season we did several hundred lessons there is big demand here, I need to be able to send people away to more deserted locations to get their basic skills.
We also have been doing this for over 10 years, I do know how to teach mate.
A trainer is not necessary for all people, only those that have NO previous experience with kites or wind sports.
A trainer kite is as real as your big kiteboarding kite, maybe you do not see it that way but that is a fact.
People that heve previous kite flying experience learn the fastest - fact!
However they do not necessarily progress to be the best kiteboarders.
If you have issues with the speed of trainers and space, use thick 500lb lines, and use lines no longer than 15-20M, even shorter to start with?
My only motive is not to lock horns with you, just to add my valuable experience to the pool of communications here ok?





fokiten wrote:
alinsley wrote:
Fo,

I normally agree with you on many of your points.

But it is my opinion that you are WRONG on this one. Steve and Traig are closer to the truth this time.

I am from the school that an inexpensive trainer kite is one of the best investments in kitesurfing.

I am also from the school that a group lesson to get the basics and then one-on-one coaching to get to the next step is the very best way to safely and quickly develop basic kiteflying skills. I agree with you - trainer kites are fast and sketchy - non-crowded spots only.

I do think that taking beginners into the ocean and giving them a full-sized kite is a bad way to go. You are right that it freaks the beginner out just enough to learn to respect the kite (a very good thing). But the only reason this is happening is because the beginner is getting hauled around by this big kite, seemingly at random because they don't understand what is going on (a very bad thing). That sounds to me like an accident waiting to happen.

But I think we both agree that kitesurfing is pretty much always an accident waiting to happen, and the trick is to use your judgement and experience to talk your ego away from doing something REALLY stupid.

But beginners don't have any judgement or experience, only ego - so they need the help of those more experienced - hopefully good schools/instructors/locals.

Cheers,
Alan


Hi alan,

It's ok man I just have my views on stuff it's ok to disagree,,,
So many are enamored with the beniffits of trainer kite that perhaps I should post my objections so that you all show me my error
I'm here to learn as well as give you guys a raft of shit,smile

My premise is you must learn to handle a real kite in real wind to kitesurf nothing short of that is REQUIRED,,,in other words you do not have to be compitent with a trainer to kitesurf,,, you just plain old every day DON"T need this skill period,,end of story,,,TRUTH,,absolute FACT,,

PLUS TRAINER KITES ARE:

1. trainers are two line kites>>a world away from a four line kite
2. trainers a lighting fast>>>>A world away form a full size kite
3, trainer let you get away with a trip through the zone>>>>this is false imput and just plain stupid to let a new guy think HEY? i can really handle this baby,,,,
4. Trainers are dangerious on a beach with people (nearlyall beaches have people)
5, you get to thinking beach kiting is fun>>BAD Mojo
6. if you CAN fly a trainner you may still get fucking wacked first srote with a real kite TRUTH
7. Thats enough for now I could go on and on,,
* you have to untrain,,trainer habits to get the dude safe on a real kite


OK if you can ignore these facts and still think beach trainig is a good
you see things different you are not of my mind
Who knows
may-be you could explain it for me?
Thanks
fokiten


Hey Steve,,
First things first,, this forum is entertainment for me, I'm not here to make pals or be popular,, I'm here to rock and roll,, I go ballistic cause I want to,,I'm fucking falling down laughing somethimes,, my monkey's got a prop me up,,, so take it how you will I ain't gonna change,,arrgo is ergo my thing,,
look, fuck,, who cares your stuck with a small beach???? That don't make it best,,,I'm talking best,,the best is water trainig that has not changed,,,
what your doing is making concessions ,,,,well,,Right???
you actually agree with me!!! your pissed about your beach,,Right??
ahh, Get a Boat?? eh? Look,,,,peace you're gonna do what you do,,
you're still rigging downwind,,Right ?? you ain't gonna change shit, about your program,, I'm just here to say what's best that's all,
You don't like it that's fine with me,, I get to go off in your direction,,that's fun for me...so Steve I'll buy you a beer if we ever meet I owe you that much for the joy you've given me,,
go jiggle, smile
fokiten


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Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 19, 2003 4:08 pm 
mickpilch wrote:
fokiten wrote:
First things first,, this forum is entertainment for me


Entertainment - can you not see the end is nigh!!!! This is serious!

LEASH THIS NOW OR BE FOREVER DAMNED!!!

Autumns a commin' its gonna get wiiiiiiiindy :thumb:


Hi Mic,Steve,
I think we made progress on this thread,
and had a few laughs, Steve you got that beer comming,
I was thinking about this beach thing and you,,,
I forgot about Whitey,,ah the>> landlord<<<,,maybe trolling newbies is
not hte best way to go for you?,,
We should all be able to smile and make progress,
Lets keep the forum for common sence first and reviews second and
bragging not at all,,
out
peace love and altitude
fokiten


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:06 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2717
Location: Retailer/distributor
Cool Fokiten
It was a good jiggle, made me giggle!
Sorry!

One day I hope to travel and collect some of the beers I have been promised, what part of the world are you based in?



fokiten wrote:
mickpilch wrote:
fokiten wrote:
First things first,, this forum is entertainment for me


Entertainment - can you not see the end is nigh!!!! This is serious!

LEASH THIS NOW OR BE FOREVER DAMNED!!!

Autumns a commin' its gonna get wiiiiiiiindy :thumb:


Hi Mic,Steve,
I think we made progress on this thread,
and had a few laughs, Steve you got that beer comming,
I was thinking about this beach thing and you,,,
I forgot about Whitey,,ah the>> landlord<<<,,maybe trolling newbies is
not hte best way to go for you?,,
We should all be able to smile and make progress,
Lets keep the forum for common sence first and reviews second and
bragging not at all,,
out
peace love and altitude
fokiten


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:25 am 
Offline
Rare Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 38
Location: Lewes (nr Brighton) UK
its all down to safety, fun, learning


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