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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:19 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:06 am
Posts: 1443
Location: Lisboa
I think that this sport should be regulated like , paragliding, flying a plane, riding a car, riding a motor boat, so why not a license to ride a Kite, and with obligatory safety systems, give some rules with penalty's to the guys who don't furfill them's.

Of course this is not good for a sport that it's rising on percentage in 2 or 3 digits but I think that this kind of fatalities will continue to happen unfortunly.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 11:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 77
Location: West Oz
To come back to the Perth fatality , I was out kiting yesterday with about 7 others . The wind was not that gusty . In Perth we get spoilt with a very constant seabreeze in summer that we compare everything to.
The conditions did contribute I believe but weren't the main cause .
I think that the main thing we have to get across to everyone is WHEN to pull the safety .
This is happening to experienced guys , they know WHAT and HOW to do what is required . I believe we are all prepared to leave it untill it is too late to pull the safety .
I agree with Fo , as much as I agree with all of RickI points I do not follow all of them .
I do have multiple safeties in place and one quick release that I activate and check every time I kite . I also activate this release when I START to get into trouble , not after I have tried to controle the kite .
We need to tell ourselves BEFORE we go kiting that we will pull the safety or there is no real point in having them there .


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:05 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:00 am
Posts: 148
Fo : Not the first time, definitely not the last time , but I do agree with you.

The adventurous people are always the first to try out these new sports.

Mostly these are people who are very aware of nature and forces behind it.

Most of the time, these people also have enough body-coordination and idea's of what to do and when and not to panic in stressfull situations.

Most of the time these people also have a fysical and mental fitness required for these sports so they aquire the basic skills fairly quick.

Then it all starts going... The sports becomes very attractive, some father, somewhere on a beach sees this guy jumping 6-7-8 ... mtr while spinning endlessly and making a touchdown similar to a aeroplane...

That doesn't look hard, not at all... I'll give it a try...
Before you know this person has bought a kite, board, wetsuit and harness and comes up to you : Hey look what I've just bought, can you teach me ? You give the man warnings that this is not your everyday sport and it does contain REAL dangours. Nevertheless, he is determined to kite. Well, if one has to choose between 2 eveils, let's choose the lesser one, so you actually invest a few hours of teaching this guy kite-control and how to get on a board, get out on the water and back ... just for the sake of your own safety. That guy now starts telling his family/colleagues on what an easy and new cool sport he just discovered and shows it to his colleagues/friends, whatever...

He advises his family/friends to buy some second-hand kit and promises to help them along. So we get going, all is well, everybody is happy...

Untill out of plain and simple boredom during off-shore wind-conditions one of the friends/colleagues decides to go out despite the warnings... Or having seen these MTV "JackAss" guys doing some stuff and getting away with it 9most of the time that is...). He starts manlifting, goes out in ver unfavourable conditions, you name it ... Often the first few times it all goes well, so confidence is building... Untill theis one day comes that has a surprise in store for you ... :evil:

IMHO it all relates to the "peter principle of management" : You are promoted to your level of incompetence... Translated to kiting : You'll keep trying new stuff untill you get hammered hard enough... :evil:

I welcome all newcomers to the sport, but I can't stress the fact that this is a dangerous sport wioth some real risc's int it.

You can't reduce the risc's, you can only prepare for them to minimize the chances of being hit by one....

Do you honestly think that if that same guy would see a snowboarder drop from a 6mtr cliff into fresh poweder he'd also think : "Wheeee, let me give that a try..." More then likely his reaction is : "You are nuts and put your life on the line for fun..."

It's the way our sport is percieved by the public that makes it so attractive but within exactly the same perception also lies it's dangours...

Just my 0.02$

GReetz and enjoy your flight....

Steven H.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:10 pm
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Location: antigua
I think the resposibility should be taken by anybody selling,passing on or lending a kite. Those with experience of our sport know what a loaded gun a powerkite can be. More schools and more certification...nobody would go scuba diving without going to school to learn how to stay alive...let people know when they obtain a kite...goto school!!!! If you have a big enough profile at your riding spot and see somebody who doesn't know what they are doing, intervene in the nicest way and explain the dangers and point that person to a school. We will stop any flier who looks in danger to themselves or others...lets safe guard our sport.
May the wind always be at your back.
Alex


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 10:06 am
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Location: Lisboa
I'm with you da_airman, a Kite Flying license it's needed to prevent this quinds of fatality's, not only for the sake of the family's that lost someone but also to the sport that we love.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:52 pm 
OK,,
I do not want to push too much,,,but I think maybe,,, in light of this thread,,, you all may see now,, >>why I say<<<,,,Beach trainig sucks,,,Training kites suck,,,A lot of talking about saftey sucks,,,,And why I take new guys out in the middle of the water and launch them on a full size kite,,,in light but addequate <sp?) wind,,,,,no hard loop,,, shackled in,,,,and let the kite explain the how and what of kite flying,,,,,

My guy's are fully aware of what a kite can do in the first 5 minutes of trainig,,, and never ever see anything but water,,,,,,,
There is no warning required after day one,,,,they get it,,,

Kites are serious,,,,you just do not fuck around,,,,
Kites fear nothing,,,,you need to respect that,,,
NO you can not avoid the danger,,,

IT's REAL,,kites are real,,,No!!! you can not be !00% safe,,,,,you take a chance every time,,,,

You Have to be Honest with them,,,or you get theads like this,,,

fokiten


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:30 am
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Location: Canada/Australia
The bottom line:

KITESURFING IS DANGEROUS.

Why?

You cannot predict mother nature 100%.

Depending on environmental conditions and location, there is a probable chance that you will be hit by a wind much higher than you can effectively handle. The more you kite, the greater chance that sooner or later you will be confronted with this situation.

If your kite is low, you will be dragged.

If your kite is high, you will be lofted.
You have two options: Come down with the kite, or Release and fall from the sky. If you think you can release quickly and avoid going too high...you are kidding yourself.

If there are hard objects or ground in proximity downwind, you will die, or if you are lucky....you will only be severely fucked up.

We must acknowledge the inevitable danger as Fo has rhetorically pointed out. But this is not to say that we should abandon the attempt to lower the probabilities of a dangerous situation occurring...thanks Rick.

The most controllable option I can think of is choosing a side shore launch and keeping the kite out toward the water. Barring a change in the wind direction, you will always have the luxury of something softer than dirt to collide with.

Onshore, Cross-On....take your chances.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:30 am
Posts: 9
Location: Canada/Australia
over...


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 8254
Location: Florida
40BELOW wrote:
The bottom line:

KITESURFING IS DANGEROUS.

Why?

You cannot predict mother nature 100%.

Depending on environmental conditions and location, there is a probable chance that you will be hit by a wind much higher than you can effectively handle. The more you kite, the greater chance that sooner or later you will be confronted with this situation.

If your kite is low, you will be dragged.

If your kite is high, you will be lofted.
You have two options: Come down with the kite, or Release and fall from the sky. If you think you can release quickly and avoid going too high...you are kidding yourself.

If there are hard objects or ground in proximity downwind, you will die, or if you are lucky....you will only be severely fucked up.

We must acknowledge the inevitable danger as Fo has rhetorically pointed out. But this is not to say that we should abandon the attempt to lower the probabilities of a dangerous situation occurring...thanks Rick.

The most controllable option I can think of is choosing a side shore launch and keeping the kite out toward the water. Barring a change in the wind direction, you will always have the luxury of something softer than dirt to collide with.

Onshore, Cross-On....take your chances.


There are many ways getting into trouble in kiteboarding, even beyond unexpected events from Mother Nature. Of course sudden wind gusts and direction changes are high on the list of more common hazards to be sure.

Let's see ...

Launching, landing and riding too close to bystanders, other riders and hard objects ( NOT ENOUGH
D I S T A N C E )

Control input and other "operator" errors

Bystander involvement (grabbing your bar or lines, speed boats, waverunners, distracting the rider at critical points, etc.)

Equipment failures (broken lines, bars, harness lines, etc.) resulting in a powered up kite and/or one that can't be depowered.

This list could go on for quite a bit longer ...


One of the most critical causes that seems to reoccur through many or perhaps MOST accidents includes:


INSUFFICIENT AWARENESS, APPRECIATION AND AVOIDANCE OF HAZARDS


Missing out on the THREE A's can really wreck your day sometimes.

Kiteboarding is NOT as easy as it looks AND what you don't know can hurt you, perhaps severely.

You need to know a lot and to use good judgment in kiteboarding to ride for the long term in varied conditions to stay healthy and whole. In the short term you may get away with knowing very little and showing little caution. The common lack of caution in many areas firmly estabishes this point.

What if some of these riders had a second chance, what do you think that they might do differently based on understanding and appreciation of the hazards? We still have the option to consider and act while these riders sadly do not.


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