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Ram Airs Crash in 2003

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BLOWN AWAY
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Postby BLOWN AWAY » Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:39 pm

cyclone wrote:B/A youve flown foils and LEI what do you prefer overall? Your opinoin counts as you are an experienced kiter.

I've only used foils in light winds and only old ones. In NZ we don't have flysurfer kites... of course we have Peter Lynn but they are a third kite group to be honest.

All i can say is this... flew an 8m Stamos in very light winds.... there is no way an LEI kite flies better than a foil in light winds. Foils are much harder to luff... I can't luff my mates 3m blade II hence the reason why I'm allways saying that foils kick ass in light flukey winds. I've never used a foil in decent wind apart from my mates blade (and that kite is shitloads faster than ANY LEI kite I've flown... the lift is insane.. PMU is talking total shit in regards to foils having more drag). I'm not about to say what's better in decent wind but lets say that the reason why i use LEI kites in good wind is because they work really well and why fix something that isn't broken? Once again horses for courses....


So here is what i've found......

LIGHT WINDS: Foils DISMEMBER LEI kites in light winds. There is no way a modified paddling pool can outperform a pure wing that is as light as a feather and designed to make people fly (paragliding and skydiving). "Oh yes but the high AR LEI kites are fast through the air and have high L/D ratio" - you've gotta B jokin right??? The only thing that sucks more in light winds than an LEI kite is a HIGH AR LEI kite....

MED WINDS: Well the stuff we normally kite in of course.... 10-30 knots. Well haven't used foils in this category so I guess anything can happen... I've only used LEI kites here and because they go quite nicely is the reason why I'll stick with LEI kites... foils may go better but i don't know that for sure and unless a certain kite is available in your local kiteshop then why bother... just stick with what you allready have. Peter Lynn is a bit easier to get but i still have to fork out money... but my next kite will b a peter lynn kite.

HIGH WINDS: I'm a fan of LEI kites here... you foil guys need to convince me that there are stable bricklike foils that can withstand insane "Windsurfers' Christmas" winds. I've seen peter lynn kites fold in strong gusty conditions but a low AR LEI kite is A DREAM to fly in these conditions... Efficiency????? What efficincly!!! In these sorta conditions my one line pirate ship could get me airborne..... the biggest challenge here is stayin alive....


So there U have it... the only gray area is what most of us kite in... so stick with what you've got... haha...... variety will drive you insane.....but being insane is a good thing :thumb:
Last edited by BLOWN AWAY on Mon Dec 29, 2003 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

charlie_don't_surf
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Postby charlie_don't_surf » Mon Dec 29, 2003 1:50 pm

In my experience the Peter Lynn Guerilla 10 is the ultimate high wind kite...even well into the 30 knt range (COMFORTABLY). you're talking about having to fly like a 7 or 5 m LEI in this sort of stuff. THe kitespeed becomes too good. However, who really wants to test fate in winds more than 40 knts?!?!

Later,
PR

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Thisl
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Postby Thisl » Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:26 pm

@Jupu:
Shure i fly Fs, but also Lei(F-One, Cabrinha, other brands before) and Garc.

Yes, tangles are possible with the psycho, but they only happen if there is not enough wind,
or if you do big errors.
And to be honest, the Psycho is not the best foil to waterstart, if it is already filled with 400l Water.
It is good starting from the water if it is not filled a lot of water.
If you are not doing big errors, it waterstarts better than LowAR Lei.
Much better is the Titan, no worry about water inside the kite.
Same as Lei, HighAR are not same well waterstarting as Intermediates and LowAR.
So if your FS drops in a wave it is up again only in seconds.
Faster than any Lei. So it is more likely, that you return with a smashed Lei from the surf than with a smashed foil.
Actually, I have not yet smashed any kite in the surf.
It seems to be a quite rare phenomen.
So if you dont kite at Jaws every day, it does not really count.
Same as judging a kite for its ability to do double low kiteloops.
Because I will never do them with any kite.
If anyone ever has done them(yes, the low ones) with any kite...

And, sure I will say something if false arguments are told about foils.
But no use to be blind on the other eye, as told before,
some Lei are very sweet in the air.

If I would fly only in perfect conditions, maybe i also would judge a kite only
for its turning speed.

By the way, too fast kites are not good for me,
at least they are more difficult to control during learning new moves.
Sometimes it is much better if the kite remains where he is.
Garc users and psychopilots know what i'm talking about.
Not everyone wants just a fast kite.
I ve seen a lot of 2003 model Leis stalling at our gusty conditions here.
Contolability(is it written like this?) is more important than speed and power.

Small sizes of kites, also of Leis are often made slower as they could be, for good reason.

Have fun,
Thisl

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Postby Nukin » Mon Dec 29, 2003 4:33 pm

No other kite I would want in waves than the Titan. Comes off the water so fast if you do manage to crash it. I have yet to have to walk the kite in or have it fill up with water, so in the waves you can totally relax and not have to worry about a 30 sec - 3 minute relaunch if you mess up.

But I have seen good LEI riders relaunch kites in waves as well, so again it all boils down to rider ability and rider preference.

SQ - any other comments about the Voodoo other than "too much grunt"

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sq225917
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Postby sq225917 » Mon Dec 29, 2003 10:48 pm

no not really i need to spend a day with it, using all the settings, its not a replacement for the titan on the water, thats for sure, i think in terms of ease of use it comes in more as a beginner water kite than the titan, its certainly got the edge on stability but not in suitability, ie plain old depower and boost which is what decent riders are looking for.

if you are looking to progress from the titan then the new psycho2 looks like it will be the one to progress with.

if you want to get just one kite for snow, land and water then i think its the way to go as its FS relaunch puts it ahead of the g-arcs in my mind. if i could only take one kite away with me for a years playing with kites, then i think it would be the voodoo.

cyclone
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Postby cyclone » Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:00 am

B/A maybe your right about the ligh wind stuff, i never go out in light wind so i dont know... WTF would you want to go out in light wind anyway...boring...

Well its only been 1 day and the results of the this discussion in the form of the poll i started in another thread are already clearly indicating that LEI are more preferred OVERALL for water use.

Perhaps i cant explain well enough why, but LEI are just better suited to surfing THUS FAR for the majority of people at the start of 2004. Maybe this will change in the future and when it does, ill be flying whatever rules the roost. I have no quams about foils just coz they are foils, i only bash kites that ive tried and dont like.

Blown Away, id think very carefully about buying a peter lynn, i had a GARC 13m and the x2 absolutely shits on it, make sure you test it many times first.

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Postby islandgirl » Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:43 am

cyclone wrote:So if you agree that foils cant compete in competitions with the best riders using them then your agreeing with everything ive said so far in this thread...

B/A youve flown foils and LEI what do you prefer overall? Your opinoin counts as you are an experienced kiter.

Ive flown both and i prefer LEI, SQ has flown and represented both and prefers LEI, i could go on but the trend is- EXPERIENCED kiters prefer LEI.

The only reason we have debates like this is because the people who get suckered into buying foils for the water (me) get the shits and want to tell everybody not to make the same mistake.

Hell if you want me to continue, ill start a new poll "people whove flown both foils and LEI, which do you prefer" and well look at the results shall we???

Well, must say because FOILS are a sweet kites and I never experience those shit that you are talking about. Shame on you sir, sentido kumon using kites. I never mistake choosing foil, because I know how to use it, easy relaunce from water and maybe never get drag like what you get from your kites.I never disagree inflatable users, because my husband has it and had many of those kites sooo why don't you just let them try what they want not trying to manipulate. Maybe you are a perfect kiter but whose to blame we're just not like you being a perfect one, or maybe aaaaaaaa your just nobody like PMU! :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye: :bye:
sometimes you need to know your limitation....

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Postby mauidragon » Wed Dec 31, 2003 3:06 am

I have both Lei 9m ,12m,16m and Foil Garc-10 and 13 and I like my foil

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Postby cyclone » Wed Dec 31, 2003 7:32 am

You guys/gals above are in a minority... good on you for being different though!

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Postby KGN » Wed Dec 31, 2003 2:46 pm

This is something I pulled of the windwings website:(makers of foil kites)

Inflatable Kites: Originally designed for water applications, inflatable kites such as the Windwing Rage and Windwing Outrage also work well on snow. Because of their "rigid" structure, inflatable kites perform slightly better in extreme light wind because they do not rely on air pressure to maintain their shape. '04 and newer Windwing LEIs work exceptionally well because of our exclusive JumpStart relaunching mechanism. Many people also choose inflatables as well because they can be used in the summertime on water, thus eliminating the need to purchase two quivers of kites. The downside to inflatable kites on snow, however, is that most non-Windwing kites do not relaunch easily on hard surfaces, they are less durable, they are larger and less efficient, and you need to pump them up, which is not always fun in cold conditions.

So there you go,both work,but dont tell me your big foils work better in light wind on snow,Big blimps go in 5 knots in snow fine.Put up a 20 mtr blimp on the snow and away you will go.

If your in backcountry though,blimps will be too big and cumbersome to hike around.Each has benefits.If you drop a 20mtr blimp on snow in 6 knots,good luck getting it to come back up,where a foil you can just pop it up. :D


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