war of words maybe he wins but TRUTH & FACTS are where i nuke his ass!
the TRUTH is that foe cares about foe and only foe
the FACT is that he doen't wear a leash and braggs about it
and i still think he probably will directly or indirectly get someone hurt
so let him woo u with his queer eye style
FACT: less is more
TRUTH: his kite is a mack truck w/out brakes
every location has 1 or 2 foe's
this debate helps people to act when a foe shows up at their spot
i love this sport so much
if we get banned here in saint pete i'll go postal
Flawed Technology Responsible For Kiting Deaths
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window guy
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window guy
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KiteGlider
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@ Window Guy -
Ok, try to stretch your imagination a bit and look at it from the perspective of explorers from an ancient space faring civilization searching the universe for enlightenment.
The explorers detect our Earth for the first time.
With the emotional equivalent to tears in their eyes, they fear that all the questions will be answered.
After thorough examination of our planet and when they reach the limits of what rectal probing can teach them, they exclaim with relief, "There is no enlightenment here, the journey continues!"
The point is that, from Fo's perspective, kiteboarding near people is the greatest threat to traction kite sports.
Fo has posted many times that he kitesurfs at a location away from people.
Also, he says he uses a grab leash anyway. Better than a few I talked to who don't use any thing and say "I don't plan on letting the kite go..... grab one line with bare hands to land."
Window Guy, please read more before rushing to judgement.
Join us in the search, there is no enlightenment here, so the journey continues.
- kg
Ok, try to stretch your imagination a bit and look at it from the perspective of explorers from an ancient space faring civilization searching the universe for enlightenment.
The explorers detect our Earth for the first time.
With the emotional equivalent to tears in their eyes, they fear that all the questions will be answered.
After thorough examination of our planet and when they reach the limits of what rectal probing can teach them, they exclaim with relief, "There is no enlightenment here, the journey continues!"
The point is that, from Fo's perspective, kiteboarding near people is the greatest threat to traction kite sports.
Fo has posted many times that he kitesurfs at a location away from people.
Also, he says he uses a grab leash anyway. Better than a few I talked to who don't use any thing and say "I don't plan on letting the kite go..... grab one line with bare hands to land."
Window Guy, please read more before rushing to judgement.
Join us in the search, there is no enlightenment here, so the journey continues.
- kg
If you read back through this thread and weed out the nonsense, Beachboy poses a good question. The current crop of kites do have a serious drawback. The original kites were inherently unstable, and all of the development has gone into making these unstable kites more powerful. The gains made by the kite manufacturers in stability are there, but honestly... are marginal. Maybe a bold new direction really is in order. Perhaps something that none of us has even imagined yet.
My second question is why is someone who poses these questions subjected to soo much derision and emotional response?
My second question is why is someone who poses these questions subjected to soo much derision and emotional response?
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GraemeF
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Having read through this thread and separated the sensible from the shall we say less than..
I would have to say the title demonstrates a typical U.S. "something or someone else is always responsible for things going wrong, so lets blame someone or even sue them" This actually discourages manufacturers or designers coming up with a defined safety system"
There have been several goes at it, but no product liability insurer will currently touch it because of the U.S. lead but rapidly coming to the U.K. liability issues from ambulance chasing lawyers.
Speaking as one who has actually been killed in a kite accident albeit only temporarily (6 mins) I have to say the debate regarding Foils v Lei's is irrelevant.
I was on the recieving end of a cold front arriving with it's consequent shift in direction and doubling in speed, just as I launched a dodgy North Toro1 which will power up backwards if given appropriate circumstances, however had it been a foil the result would still have been the same.
There is still nothing out there that guarantees 100%, but for the first time I now feel safe by not launching hooked in, thanks to those twist lock ball fittings that afford the rider the option to lock the C/L in any given position, which I now do in any transition from land to sea and on the return. They are also useful for those bent on handle passes.
As far as kite types generally my career only took off when I progressed from my orginal Naish AR3.5 to an open fronted Blade 4.9 copy, and this was due to it's stability at the time. Friends benefited by the stability of the Arc in their early learning curve, but incidents such as seeing Chris Calthrop's nasty accident in Weymouth which was just a Blade hitting an air pocket and inverting then reflating at speed causing the picklefork board he was riding to be thrust into his mouth and out just below his eye. And candle incidents in the Gorge have convinced us, that once you are fully aware of all the opportunities the basic instability of the third dimension of the medium us ex windsurfers are now having to cope with can throw at us from time to time, the best thing to deal with it, is the relative stability of an inflatable with it's inherent ability to "hunt" the windshifts and at the risk of getting flamed for bringing Slingshot into the equation.
Currently their idea of equalising the pressure strut wide, and bringing the struts into the canopy for extra stability should be viewed as a step forward to be embraced and maybe further developed rather than just slated for whatever reason.
So to sum up
Your own safety is your responsibility even more so because of the U.S. legal system.
Foils and super stable kites like Guerilla are great in the early stages, but can bring a false sense of security, and should not be used in unstable wind conditions.
Steps forward in kite design should be applauded not derided for competitive advantage however temporary.
Never be hooked or shackled in when launching or landing you simply have no time to react when trouble comes however good the safety release might appear, you'll probably be unconcious or in severe trauma or "shock freeze" before you even get chance to release.
I would have to say the title demonstrates a typical U.S. "something or someone else is always responsible for things going wrong, so lets blame someone or even sue them" This actually discourages manufacturers or designers coming up with a defined safety system"
There have been several goes at it, but no product liability insurer will currently touch it because of the U.S. lead but rapidly coming to the U.K. liability issues from ambulance chasing lawyers.
Speaking as one who has actually been killed in a kite accident albeit only temporarily (6 mins) I have to say the debate regarding Foils v Lei's is irrelevant.
I was on the recieving end of a cold front arriving with it's consequent shift in direction and doubling in speed, just as I launched a dodgy North Toro1 which will power up backwards if given appropriate circumstances, however had it been a foil the result would still have been the same.
There is still nothing out there that guarantees 100%, but for the first time I now feel safe by not launching hooked in, thanks to those twist lock ball fittings that afford the rider the option to lock the C/L in any given position, which I now do in any transition from land to sea and on the return. They are also useful for those bent on handle passes.
As far as kite types generally my career only took off when I progressed from my orginal Naish AR3.5 to an open fronted Blade 4.9 copy, and this was due to it's stability at the time. Friends benefited by the stability of the Arc in their early learning curve, but incidents such as seeing Chris Calthrop's nasty accident in Weymouth which was just a Blade hitting an air pocket and inverting then reflating at speed causing the picklefork board he was riding to be thrust into his mouth and out just below his eye. And candle incidents in the Gorge have convinced us, that once you are fully aware of all the opportunities the basic instability of the third dimension of the medium us ex windsurfers are now having to cope with can throw at us from time to time, the best thing to deal with it, is the relative stability of an inflatable with it's inherent ability to "hunt" the windshifts and at the risk of getting flamed for bringing Slingshot into the equation.
Currently their idea of equalising the pressure strut wide, and bringing the struts into the canopy for extra stability should be viewed as a step forward to be embraced and maybe further developed rather than just slated for whatever reason.
So to sum up
Your own safety is your responsibility even more so because of the U.S. legal system.
Foils and super stable kites like Guerilla are great in the early stages, but can bring a false sense of security, and should not be used in unstable wind conditions.
Steps forward in kite design should be applauded not derided for competitive advantage however temporary.
Never be hooked or shackled in when launching or landing you simply have no time to react when trouble comes however good the safety release might appear, you'll probably be unconcious or in severe trauma or "shock freeze" before you even get chance to release.
Hi,
I think if you disregard the whineing and bs in this thread any reasonable fellow would find that the issue is with the wind and not the kite.
Kites work perfectly in steady wind, they park and just sit there nothing happens they are perfectly stable.
The overiding flaw in kiting is in the rider; we launch in gusty wind.
I'm not saying we're stupid I'm saying we are in charge.
We take perfectly designed kites and make them look like crap.
We take a perfectly able form of transport and abuse the public and the animals with them, we have been, are, and will continue to be, the flaw in our collective ointment.
that's what left in this thread, not lawyers, not Americans, not kites, just us d-wads.
fokiten
PS. when we get the good wind kiting is the safest thing I do
I think if you disregard the whineing and bs in this thread any reasonable fellow would find that the issue is with the wind and not the kite.
Kites work perfectly in steady wind, they park and just sit there nothing happens they are perfectly stable.
The overiding flaw in kiting is in the rider; we launch in gusty wind.
I'm not saying we're stupid I'm saying we are in charge.
We take perfectly designed kites and make them look like crap.
We take a perfectly able form of transport and abuse the public and the animals with them, we have been, are, and will continue to be, the flaw in our collective ointment.
that's what left in this thread, not lawyers, not Americans, not kites, just us d-wads.
fokiten
PS. when we get the good wind kiting is the safest thing I do
It is good to read some thoughtful replies. Thank you. I never really meant to imply that there was any type of conspiracy nor was I attempting to assign any legal liability. I'm just basically talking about kite design. You guys are of course quite right. The ultimate responsibility for safety lies totally with the kiter.
A little over a year ago I was in Hawaii and saw Don Montague (sp?), the designer for Naish riding a unique hybrid prtotype. It was basically the Guerilla design (sled shaped, twin skin, ram air, 4 line kite) with a small diameter bladder throughout the leading edge. I watched him for a while, and the performance seemed great. He eventually went way out to sea, and I never saw that kite again.
I would love to hear info about that kite, and why it hasn't made it to production. Has anybody else seen that kite, or have iny info?
A little over a year ago I was in Hawaii and saw Don Montague (sp?), the designer for Naish riding a unique hybrid prtotype. It was basically the Guerilla design (sled shaped, twin skin, ram air, 4 line kite) with a small diameter bladder throughout the leading edge. I watched him for a while, and the performance seemed great. He eventually went way out to sea, and I never saw that kite again.
I would love to hear info about that kite, and why it hasn't made it to production. Has anybody else seen that kite, or have iny info?
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