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Dax
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Postby Dax » Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:48 pm

Does anyone else wish we could all just show up to the beach with every big kite ever made (foils and LEI), and every board size from a stubbie to a surf board, with light winds, and settle this once and for all? :-?

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The Jess-Man
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Postby The Jess-Man » Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:08 pm

I've never been on a great big kite before. Any notice any difference when flying them? Are they supposed to feel different than a smaller size?

J

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Ozone Kites AUS
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Postby Ozone Kites AUS » Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:20 pm

Big foils, weigh heaps mate, they contain a lot of air, have 2 skins, ribs, bridles, pulleys, etc. Weight is an issue with big kites, but the new big inflatable kites are built well, are single skin and do fly remarkably well.
I have kited upwind on a Rhino2 20M in 6-8knots on a Jamie Pro 1.30 x 40m Board, people saw me, I was not dreaming it!
I have done the same thing on an R4 20M.
I have also kited upwind in 6-8 knots, on a 1.32 Underground FLX and the Best Nemesis on my short holiday last week, look how flat and glassy the water is in my avatar picture to the left.
I could so small jumps in the slightly stronger gusts, mainly die to the speed of the kite, and how fast it allowed me to move across the water, which meant the kite had good apparent wind. Nemesis kites, and R04/02 kites, fly fast, the secret to making big kites work.
I have yet to see a big bridled foil fly fast enough to be a serious contender to the newer big inflatables, on the water.

I do a lot of kiting in light winds, due to my crook knee. I would use foils if they actually worked better, I sell a big range of foils, unlike almost any other shops in Oz.[/quote]

Hey while your at it, dont forget to mention your bodyweight, cause if i had 60 kilos id be flying at 8knots.
In any case, this is not about foils or LEIs (mind you, no matter how high tech an inflatable 20M kite is - its got bladders which are the weight problem which destroys all other LEI weight advantages), its about:
no way you can JUMP at 6 knots.
Making a kite move fast is nothing new - that will work on any kite but sining like crazy to go upwind cant be what you call kiting.
I sell inflatables and foils on my island and theres no way im gonna make any of my customers believe that 6 knots will do it because they are the magic "superbrand" kites. Dont know how you can do it, but seeing is believing so ill wait for hurghada. What i miss here is the fine but essential difference of how they say things. If your gonna put "jumping at 6knots" you should mention weight,boardsize,kitesize,AVERAGE wind, lulls, water conditions and last but not least, airtemp. Cause all this is really important when you start crawling around in the under 8 knots section - no matter what wonderkite you got.
Going upwind with 6 knots maybe if you sine it - and lets face it that super glassy water you take as an example isnt really your typical kiting beach on sea (thats what most people got infront of their doors).
Besides the fact that they had a 124cm board dude, and you a bigger one...[/quote]

Hi Mark
Don't get too worked up by what I say, lifes too short! :-)
I am 70kg, the board was 8cm longer, big deal. The water was flat, that makes a small difference, but water is pretty flat sub 10 knots.
Anyone who say they can jump huge in 6 knots is full of BS, I agree with you.
I did not have to sine the kite like crazy, it was parked most of the time.
If you are sining a kite like crazy you are most likely going downwind.
If you lived where my picture was taken, that would be your typical water conditions, there are many places like this in Oz and aropund the world.
There are no magic kites, just really well designed ones.
Bladders are lighter than ever, and bridled parafoils still contain more air and are consequently quite slow to turn, and fly slower, so they generate less apparent wind, and don't work as well in light winds, yet.
Making large inflato kites fly fast and turn tight and fast is new, get on one of the kites I mentioned, you will be convinced.
Board size can compensate for weight, bigger people need to use a bigger board, and maybe even a bigger kite.

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goshen
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Postby goshen » Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:59 am

Just on the light wind topic, I can tell you that at my local spot, hold your windmeter up on a certain day, and it'll tell you 6 knots. Get out one of these BIG kites, and you'll cream upwind on the dead flat water - it's a warm wind, and the wind gradiant is substancial - probably blowing more like 12 knots 20m up. Get 10 knots on your windmeter, and it's time to bring out a 12-14m! As said, there are far more variables to consider than kite size and windspeed.

It was on one of these days, that I (60kg) was going upwind in 3-4 knots; 168cm board. You don't have to beleive me. 8)

Cheers,
Goshen

kiteboardkorea
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KITEPOWER = PMU

Postby kiteboardkorea » Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:36 am

kitepower wrote:Big foils, weigh heaps mate, they contain a lot of air, have 2 skins, ribs, bridles, pulleys, etc. Weight is an issue with big kites, but the new big inflatable kites are built well, are single skin and do fly remarkably well.

I have yet to see a big bridled foil fly fast enough to be a serious contender to the newer big inflatables, on the water.

.

Finally the proof is here.


KITEPOWER = PMU


Kitepower obviously have not flown any on the newer big foils, as an owner of the North 20 and the Titan 21, I know which kite has more power.

The T21

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Postby Kolahi » Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:16 am

I was thinking the same thing that he showed a resemblence to PMU, all things aside i must admit the foils i've flown just dont have the low end of an LEI.

I fly Foils when its high wind, which is pretty much always around here, and when its on the light side im on my only LEI which happens to be my largest kite (12m).

Best combination : big kites for low wind are my LEI's and my high wind kites are foils.

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Ozone Kites AUS
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Re: KITEPOWER = PMU

Postby Ozone Kites AUS » Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:50 am

kiteboardkorea wrote:
kitepower wrote:Big foils, weigh heaps mate, they contain a lot of air, have 2 skins, ribs, bridles, pulleys, etc. Weight is an issue with big kites, but the new big inflatable kites are built well, are single skin and do fly remarkably well.

I have yet to see a big bridled foil fly fast enough to be a serious contender to the newer big inflatables, on the water.

.

Finally the proof is here.


KITEPOWER = PMU


Kitepower obviously have not flown any on the newer big foils, as an owner of the North 20 and the Titan 21, I know which kite has more power.

The T21
You must be really dumb, I am the exlusive dealer for Flexifoil and Ozone in Oz and I am not PMU
I have tens of thousands of dollars of foils in stock, and I sell them, why would I hang shit on them, hmmmmm? :o

Your response does tell us all a bit about how long you have been into kites though.

A 20M Rhino has a projected area of approx 14/15M, a 21M Titan has a projected area of approx 18/19M, so it should be more "powerful", as in "pulls" more, but the Rhino is more tractable, in that it flies faster and turns tighter and faster.

I have been into power kites for over 12 years, I spent thousands of hours on foils, even when I started kitesurfing, but I prefer the performance and safety of inflatable sled kites, on water, on land or snow bridled foils rule! Arc sled foils work pretty well too, but big inflatos beat them on water still.

kiteboardkorea
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Re: KITEPOWER = PMU

Postby kiteboardkorea » Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:57 am

kitepower wrote:
kiteboardkorea wrote:
kitepower wrote:Big foils, weigh heaps mate, they contain a lot of air, have 2 skins, ribs, bridles, pulleys, etc. Weight is an issue with big kites, but the new big inflatable kites are built well, are single skin and do fly remarkably well.

I have yet to see a big bridled foil fly fast enough to be a serious contender to the newer big inflatables, on the water.

.

Finally the proof is here.


KITEPOWER = PMU


Kitepower obviously have not flown any on the newer big foils, as an owner of the North 20 and the Titan 21, I know which kite has more power.

The T21
You must be really dumb, I am the exlusive dealer for Flexifoil and Ozone in Oz and I am not PMU
I have tens of thousands of dollars of foils in stock, and I sell them, why would I hang shit on them, hmmmmm? :o

Your response does tell us all a bit about how long you have been into kites though.

A 20M Rhino has a projected area of approx 14/15M, a 21M Titan has a projected area of approx 18/19M, so it should be more "powerful", as in "pulls" more, but the Rhino is more tractable, in that it flies faster and turns tighter and faster.

I have been into power kites for over 12 years, I spent thousands of hours on foils, even when I started kitesurfing, but I prefer the performance and safety of inflatable sled kites, on water, on land or snow bridled foils rule! Arc sled foils work pretty well too, but big inflatos beat them on water still.
Heh Steve , Chill Out.

I know you sell foils as well, but I guess the question is , have you flown the FS 21?

Of Course the North 20 is not as powerfull as the FS 21 but as I own both kites I can tell you that for low air the FS 21 is way more fun to ride in a wake board style setup, say sub 10 knots than my North 20, no matter how much you sign the North 20. Once the wind gets up over 12 knots my North 20 is better as it signs quicker and will gernerate way more power for pop and boosting from the water than my FS Titan.

Drew

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No Pump ReQuired
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Kitepower = PMU = Best

Postby No Pump ReQuired » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:39 am

Kolahi wrote:I was thinking the same thing that he showed a resemblence to PMU, all things aside i must admit the foils i've flown just dont have the low end of an LEI.

I fly Foils when its high wind, which is pretty much always around here, and when its on the light side im on my only LEI which happens to be my largest kite (12m).

Best combination : big kites for low wind are my LEI's and my high wind kites are foils.

Got to say I agree here, kitepower is sounding very much like PMU who also works for BEST now

NPR

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mark van haze
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Re: KITEPOWER = PMU

Postby mark van haze » Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:41 pm

kitepower wrote:
kiteboardkorea wrote:
kitepower wrote:Big foils, weigh heaps mate, they contain a lot of air, have 2 skins, ribs, bridles, pulleys, etc. Weight is an issue with big kites, but the new big inflatable kites are built well, are single skin and do fly remarkably well.

I have yet to see a big bridled foil fly fast enough to be a serious contender to the newer big inflatables, on the water.

.

Finally the proof is here.


KITEPOWER = PMU


Kitepower obviously have not flown any on the newer big foils, as an owner of the North 20 and the Titan 21, I know which kite has more power.

The T21
You must be really dumb, I am the exlusive dealer for Flexifoil and Ozone in Oz and I am not PMU
I have tens of thousands of dollars of foils in stock, and I sell them, why would I hang shit on them, hmmmmm? :o

Your response does tell us all a bit about how long you have been into kites though.

A 20M Rhino has a projected area of approx 14/15M, a 21M Titan has a projected area of approx 18/19M, so it should be more "powerful", as in "pulls" more, but the Rhino is more tractable, in that it flies faster and turns tighter and faster.

I have been into power kites for over 12 years, I spent thousands of hours on foils, even when I started kitesurfing, but I prefer the performance and safety of inflatable sled kites, on water, on land or snow bridled foils rule! Arc sled foils work pretty well too, but big inflatos beat them on water still.
I cant look back on that many years of kiting experience but maybe thats why im not so hell bent on LEIs.
Just check out this video i taped during january 2004 in hurghada - on of the many windless days there during that time of year. Then tell me you can do the same with a equally sized LEI at 4 knots.
Yeah right, the foils (and im talking of foils made AFTER 2002) weigh more than LEIs... NOT.

http://www.computerprofessional.at/radi ... odoo14.wmv


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