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Ozone Kites AUS
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Re: KITEPOWER = PMU

Postby Ozone Kites AUS » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:19 pm

I cant look back on that many years of kiting experience but maybe thats why im not so hell bent on LEIs.
Just check out this video i taped during january 2004 in hurghada - on of the many windless days there during that time of year. Then tell me you can do the same with a equally sized LEI at 4 knots.
Yeah right, the foils (and im talking of foils made AFTER 2002) weigh more than LEIs... NOT.

http://www.computerprofessional.at/radi ... oo14.wmv [/quote]

Thats quite funny, I wonder what you think it proves? I could get an open celled foil like an Ozone razor 11M, 4lined on handles to fly in that "wind", no problem, just by walking back and forwards, and downturning at the edge instead of the upturn you tried to do.
I can actually fly that Ozone razor indoors in no wind.

Its not just about weight. And I doubt there is much difference between the 2 types of kites anyway, as I have weighed them before.
Its more about the foil shape, a/r, etc, and how the pilot actually, actively flys the kite, and controls the aoa.

I'm so crazy about kites I once spent $480aud on an indoor stunt kite that weighed 112 grams and had a 2m wingspan.

I have travelled over 15,000klms in my buggys, all done on foils or stacks of stunt kites, foils rock, but do not yet have the tractability of the inflatos, for on water use.

The point is that the new LARGE inflatable kites are very good performers, and at the moment they outperform bridled parafoils.

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Postby GregW » Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:32 am

My Boom Prion 12m (foil) is about 2 knots short of the bottom end of the Rhino II 20. It has a similar bottom end to a 16-18m LEI. The Rhino flies better in very light air but I have never had any trouble keeping my Prion in the air and if it did drop it is way easier to relaunch than the Rhino.

When the Best 21m appeared I toyed with the idea of getting one to get me out in those lighter breezes but $1400-1500 AUD is still a lot of money for a kite you will only need a few times a year. I am more inclined to try getting out on my surfboard with my current kites than buy more gear.

Regards

Greg

kiteboardkorea
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Re: KITEPOWER = PMU

Postby kiteboardkorea » Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:56 am

kitepower wrote:
Thats quite funny, I wonder what you think it proves? I could get an open celled foil like an Ozone razor 11M, 4lined on handles to fly in that "wind", no problem, just by walking back and forwards, and downturning at the edge instead of the upturn you tried to do.
I can actually fly that Ozone razor indoors in no wind.

Its not just about weight. And I doubt there is much difference between the 2 types of kites anyway, as I have weighed them before.
Its more about the foil shape, a/r, etc, and how the pilot actually, actively flys the kite, and controls the aoa.

I'm so crazy about kites I once spent $480aud on an indoor stunt kite that weighed 112 grams and had a 2m wingspan.

I have travelled over 15,000klms in my buggys, all done on foils or stacks of stunt kites, foils rock, but do not yet have the tractability of the inflatos, for on water use.

The point is that the new LARGE inflatable kites are very good performers, and at the moment they outperform bridled parafoils.
Bla Bla Bla Bla,

I am glad you beleive your Own BS Steve ( PMU) because most of the real word actually are out there flying their FS kites in light winds and know the truth. You really need to get out of your shop and Australia more and see what happening in the rest of the world.

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mark van haze
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Postby mark van haze » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:06 am

Big foils, weigh heaps mate, they contain a lot of air, have 2 skins, ribs, bridles, pulleys, etc. Weight is an issue with big kites, but the new big inflatable kites are built well, are single skin and do fly remarkably well.
Steve, it proves my point that modern foils weigh less than a modern LEI. And as i said before, show me a LEI do the same in those conditions.
In my opinion, weight is a major issue when we talk about light wind conditions. Of course its not only the weight, but you know as well as i do, foils have been bashed for years because when they first came out, they sucked ass on water - its hard to shake that image and even harder to convince pre-molded minds.
Anyway, as ive said before, this isnt about foils vs LEIs - i fly both and enjoy them all. BUT I despise this BS being sold by ANY kite company that you can JUMP at 6 knots and actually kitesurf.
Might change with newer technologies, but now its pure BS.

Ozone Kites AUS
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Postby Ozone Kites AUS » Thu Mar 25, 2004 12:57 pm

mark van haze wrote:
Big foils, weigh heaps mate, they contain a lot of air, have 2 skins, ribs, bridles, pulleys, etc. Weight is an issue with big kites, but the new big inflatable kites are built well, are single skin and do fly remarkably well.
Steve, it proves my point that modern foils weigh less than a modern LEI. And as i said before, show me a LEI do the same in those conditions.
In my opinion, weight is a major issue when we talk about light wind conditions. Of course its not only the weight, but you know as well as i do, foils have been bashed for years because when they first came out, they sucked ass on water - its hard to shake that image and even harder to convince pre-molded minds.
Anyway, as ive said before, this isnt about foils vs LEIs - i fly both and enjoy them all. BUT I despise this BS being sold by ANY kite company that you can JUMP at 6 knots and actually kitesurf.
Might change with newer technologies, but now its pure BS.
I disagree that it proves a 2004 water bridled para foil of equivalent size weighs less than a 2004 inflato sled kite.
It only proves that it barely flew, and that you did not use the apparent wind the foil generates to keep it in the air.
If you had flown the kite up walking backwards slowly from launch to approx 11.30, then gently turned the kite side on and flew a short distance across and high in the wind window, then turned the kite 180 degrees, downwards (and as you turned downwards you walked slowly towards the kite, so as not to end up miles from your launch) and repeated that on the other side, than you probably could have flown the kite indefinately.
I beleive I can do that with a Best Nemesis 18M, or a North R04 18 or 20M

So really what I am saying is that both styles of kites have been improved radically in the last couple of years, but I simply prefer the more tractable power of a large inflato, like the ones mentioned. Large foils still turn too slow, and fly too slow, compared to equivalent sized inflatos.

Personally, I think monster kites over 18-20M flat in inflatos are diminished return expensive toys. For example I was the only person left on the water tonight with a naish 16M V4 and an Underground MC 1.58x44 (I would have been on the 18M nemesis but it was on loan) wind dropped to approx 8 knots just as I got on the water. Other people on kites as big as 20 R04 gave up after ending up downwind, but they were all on 1.30ish boards.

Change your board size, makes a much bigger and more enjoyable low wind kiteboarding experience than blowin a lot of money on a monster kite.

Monster foils like the 21M FS you are so smitten with have a tiny 4-6 knot windrange, and cost a lot, how much are they retailing for?

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Postby kjelleren » Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:49 pm

Steve,
I don't believe for a second that you are pump me up. Much too rational. Definately stepping into a minefield, that seems to bring out the vitriol in folks. LEIs vs Foils. I don't quite understand why folks feel so stronly. I sail both and like both. Its all play, anyways.

Folks, repeat after me- kiting is play...kiting is play... kiting is play.


Play harder

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Re: KITEPOWER = PMU

Postby Arcsrule » Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:50 pm

kiteboardkorea wrote:[because most of the real word actually are out there flying their FS kites in light winds and know the truth.
IF you really believe the garbage you're typing, then you would jump on buying my almost perfect Psycho 15.5 for $600 us . But you don't and neither does any one else who owns a Flysurfer. they look like a Corvette but fly like a bathtub! the only ones that calm to like them are those trying to sell them and those embarassed because they bought into the hype and can't afford to get another kite..

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sq225917
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Postby sq225917 » Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:33 pm

steve isn't PMU....

Ozone Kites AUS
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Posts: 2781
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Weight: 75kg
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Gear: Ozone 6/8/10/12 Reo V7, 10/14 Enduro v4, Zephyr V7, Edge V12 10M, Alpha V2 8/14M, Firewire Vanguard 5'2" and Evo 5'1" and Delta Designs ReVamp 5'9" couple of custom Blacksheep surfboards Mystic Stealth harness and stealth rope slider.
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Postby Ozone Kites AUS » Thu Mar 25, 2004 10:20 pm

kjelleren wrote:Steve,
I don't believe for a second that you are pump me up. Much too rational. Definately stepping into a minefield, that seems to bring out the vitriol in folks. LEIs vs Foils. I don't quite understand why folks feel so stronly. I sail both and like both. Its all play, anyways.

Folks, repeat after me- kiting is play...kiting is play... kiting is play.


Play harder
:D
Thanks mate! Yes this thread has gone sideways a bit eh?
If you are a big person (+95kg) then kites bigger than 20M can make sense if you live in an area where you get a lot of light winds, but I still reckon you do better with a bigger board in sub 10 knots, with a not so giant kite, provided you are not +120kg
Big inflatable kites like the Best Nemesis work because they TURN tight, and fly FAST.
If foils could do both these things I would fly them and promote them, but the truth is they don't YET.

Anyway, if you like your big foil and happy with it, thats all that matters, I prefer big inflatos (18M Best Nemesis!!) and a bigger board.

We have pretty much decided that PMU is originally from Nth Qld (might be still in WA), based on little slips he has made on here, and at comps we have attended, it is not Jeremy Hurwitz either SQ.

Personally I could not give a damn about what PMU says, virtually none of it is true, and in fact he keeps awareness of foils alive, so some thanks to him, and I keep selling them because they are awesome kites for land/snow use - nothin better!

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mark van haze
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Postby mark van haze » Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:29 pm

Steve, of course you can ride a huge board but if theres not enough wind to keep the kite in the air, its not gonna change a thing.
Anyways, you show me a video doing the same thing with a LEI, best,naish,north,whatever - and youve got me convinced.

And again, all the foils vs LEI idiots here - please, just go out and kite cause this thread isnt about what kind of kite is better, its about false claims such as "jumping at 6 knots".


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