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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:19 pm 
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Location: The United Mistakes of America
toyletbowl wrote:
Sometimes though riders have no choice but to ride close to other riders. It's not ideal, but launch and landing situations sometimes dictate the riding situation.


I'm not talking about someone blocking access to the launch zone - most newbies get the word on that and get out of the launch zone once their kites are airborne (the beach I was at has tons of space). Any other exceptions?

toyletbowl wrote:
One thing you and other newbies can do to help is if you're downwind and a rider is getting close, lower your kite so they can pass by you safely with thier kite overhead.


You're describing the exact problem I had the other day, frequently had to wait to get going because I had to keep moving my kite down (and then getting set all over again), or because they went downwind of me right in the direction I was intending to start (not bothering to jibe until they were a lineset length away)...
If you're depending on a newbie to lower their kite so you can get by - YOU'RE TOO CLOSE!!!

Next time, I'm just going to ignore them and/or pretend to have really bad kite skills - maybe if I look dangerous enough and send my kite right at thiers, they'll give me enough space. It seems like being polite only made them feel comfortable about riding even closer...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:26 pm 
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Location: Madison, Wi. Cabrinha, Slingshot, Blade, Axis, Mystic, NP Surf.
Tom,

Point well made. Thanks for clarifying. You for sure have guys who don't understand the unwritten rules of the road and who could care less about you. That's bad mojo. Sound like they are just showing off and playing the alpha male game. You know...look at me...i can ride close to everyone else and they should give way to me attitude.

Keep you senses though and don't lower yourself to their level. This is not a sport to send a message to someone else while on the water. Good luck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:42 pm 
See> Can kiteforum make you a better kiter thread for the answer to the distance question.

The answer is fuck no!

I got got my leash so fuck off.

Yup,,,,,,Our best kiter is our biggest violater of the rules, WHY?

because he can,,,,He's just that good, what's he say? when we tell him knock off the shore show.

fuck off.

yup that's the real story

enjoy it while you can...
fokiten

ps. he's one of my best freinds and I think he is preety cool, so there is no hope,,,,,,, that's right ,,,,,,,,,no hope at all...


(EDIT)

HEY!!! >don't put my poem in flamer's paridse I fucking think it's topical
So here it is again...
regards
fokiten

He lofted a pensive finger up
and stroked the exclamation key,
another stroke should be enough
(he thought) they will surely see!!

Alas, no words could fill the void
a kiter's wick is damp indeed
soaked in brine and humanoid
these addicts share the need--

To hold their fellow's favor
while lofting to the beach,
"It's all good just savor!
I'm hooked up to my leash!"

fopoetry


Last edited by fokiten on Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:46 pm 
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Location: Corpus Christi, Tx
at my local spot ive seen a few line tangles. the worst id seen was a 13m kite passed completly through a 11m kite.... needless to say the both didnt panic and slowly worked the kites back through and were on their ways again. jus dont freak out and panic when shit happens, and it will sometime, and u will react better.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:46 pm 
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I don't think there was chest-thumping involved, just a kind of "me first" attitude - the kind of guy who is annoyed when he doesn't have the whole beach to himself.

The message I sent was "I'm not leaving"...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:06 pm 
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fokiten wrote:
See> Can kiteforum make you a better kiter thread for the answer to the distance question.

The answer is fuck no!

I got got my leash so fuck off.

Yup,,,,,,Our best kiter is our biggest violater of the rules, WHY?

because he can,,,,He's just that good, what's he say? when we tell him knock off the shore show.

fuck off.

yup that's the real story

enjoy it while you can...
fokiten

ps. he's one of my best freinds and I think he is preety cool, so there is no hope,,,,,,, that's right ,,,,,,,,,no hope at all...



Just hope he understands that if other guys lose access because of him, they'll have nothing better to do with their time except follow him around and beat the living shit out of him when noone is looking... If they end up selling their gear, they could even hire someone to do it for them...


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:06 pm 
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Location: Florida
Tom,

You are right and it is a problem at some launches. People don't realize or more often don't appreciate the hazard of their acts so they just do it. Some things that I do if I am riding with other kiteboarders to try to avoid traffic problems:

1. Observe rules of the road when converging.

Image
From: http://dbw.ca.gov/Pubs/Windsurf/

The guy that is circled has the right of way.

2. If you are meeting head on with another person on the water, remove any doubt well in advance of meeting by holding your arm up above your body and pointing in the direction you are going to travel in. This simple courtesy will avoid some hard feelings and incidents.

3. Pass well upwind of others to where you lines and kite never come close to them. If you come too close why not stop, park your kite at the vertical while well offshore and wait for the situation to pass in moderate winds?

4. Incoming riders should ideally yield the right of way to outgoing riders.

5. Don't jump upwind of others on the water inside of 300 ft., ideally.

If you have guys that ignore all of this routinely you need to have an effective talk with them. Saying it is too much trouble or they won't respond before trying is as good as voting to cause incidents and possibly accidents and loss of access.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 6:36 pm 
RickI wrote:
Tom,

You are right and it is a problem at some launches. People don't realize or more often don't appreciate the hazard of their acts so they just do it. Some things that I do if I am riding with other kiteboarders to try to avoid traffic problems:

1. Observe rules of the road when converging.

Image
From: http://dbw.ca.gov/Pubs/Windsurf/

The guy that is circled has the right of way.

2. If you are meeting head on with another person on the water, remove any doubt well in advance of meeting by holding your arm up above your body and pointing in the direction you are going to travel in. This simple courtesy will avoid some hard feelings and incidents.

3. Pass well upwind of others to where you lines and kite never come close to them. If you come too close why not stop, park your kite at the vertical while well offshore and wait for the situation to pass in moderate winds?

4. Incoming riders should ideally yield the right of way to outgoing riders.

5. Don't jump upwind of others on the water inside of 300 ft., ideally.

If you have guys that ignore all of this routinely you need to have an effective talk with them. Saying it is too much trouble or they won't respond before trying is as good as voting to cause incidents and possibly accidents and loss of access.


Well,
All that sounds pretty good but!!

I for one secretly enjoy watching our biggest safety violater do his thing right next to the beach (head scrach) I know it's wrong but shit it's fucking cool too!!

That's the problem we all kinda like being noticed, even me ! (I kite off shore all the time) but when I come in I'm deffinetly putting on a show, I make sure as I approach the shore I've got it all together and I exit safe but, I still kinda like to watch this violater do his thing...

It's like he doesn't care anymore double kiteloops, triple kiteloop transitions??..,,, I think he just feels like whatever I'll deal with the issues AND he does!!

this is a problem that's sorta beyond our abillity to over come.

It's sad I guess? but I thik that's the whole story
fokiten


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:58 pm 
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Talking can be a waste of time but not always. Some reforms come from it, sometimes.

Still the best motivator of positive change is loss, sad to say. That is loss of convenience, respect, gear, access, health and life. I am often impressed by the lengths people will go to not to appear to be "stupid" or uncool.

News Flash: Riding too close to shore, placing bystanders in harms way is becoming more uncool and more people are going to conclude folks are "stupid."

Just toss in some more loss and stupidly avoidable injuries to riders, etc. The word will get out. That is the way it has gone with this sport over the years and in many other activities as well. Pile enough injured and lost people up and you WILL eventually make an impression and motivate change. Ego motivated irresponsible acts can really stun common sense and bring harm but with time and enough negative reinforcement, even this tendency can be overcome, sometimes.

Kite leashes are a prime example. What percentage of experienced riders used them two years ago vs. today? We aren't there yet but we are much further ahead.

This has been repeated so many times in the past in many different sports and activities from driving to flying to ice hockey to sailing, etc.. We will have more problems before we have substantial improvement in all likelihood but that is the way it is. So give up now? Nope, not yet.


Last edited by RickI on Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:47 pm 
Hi Rick,

I'm not saying give up, I just think that it's kind of a strange paradox that in kitesurfing the best guys are really the ones who make us look bad.

On the west coast all you hear about is>>> how it's the kooks<<<< (inexperienced riders) who are the problem, It's now all about kite militias who lay down the law, "Beach Gods" and the poor rookies are takeng it in the shorts,,,

When in fact the rookies are just trying to stay the fuck out of the way, same with the intermeadate guys, sure we all fuck up/ can have bad luck,

but the REAL problems come from the most talented guys who show off as a means of justifying they're Militia status/attitude/ they think they're Beach Gods/

and they fucking DO try to prove it by busting huge right in your face.

It's that parodox that's gonna fuck us.

What's your take on that Rick?

fokiten


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