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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:19 pm 
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Location: Florida
It was interesting and sad, that for a few years the vast majority of our fatalities and severe injuries mainly occurred to the more experienced riders. Familiarity (experience) can breed contempt (for reasonable caution), and "I can handle it" strikes again. There are plenty of lost hang gliders, extreme divers, mountain climbers to back up this trend.

Still, our best riders are also the most able parties to alter the way they ride, when and if they are of a mind to do this. Fortunately, not ALL of our best riders are guilty of turning the fires up on access, only an unacceptable percentage. Years ago, it was fairly apparent that the two greatest threats to kiteboarding access were indifferent/ignorant new and well experienced riders. The intermediate guys often have a fair amount of caution still given some exposure to the sport and personal knowledge of some of the downsides.

Even our best riders will start to tumble to peer pressure and regulatory restrictions, at some point. The question is, how much are we going to be forced to lose until their prespective changes? Fingers crossed for a quick awakening but things will run their course and the consequences will be shared by all of us for the actions of irresponsible riders. Avoid problems or be slammed by their consequences, hmmm, tough decision?!

In the meantime, people doing "stupid" things are going to be labeled as "stupid" more of the time. If the odd hot rider thinks he looks stupid in a helmet, nearly scalping those bystanders will label the "hot" rider as a veritable nice person.

Count on it, riders are beginning to see the writing on the wall and develop reasonable fear for what is at stake to be lost. That is the freedom to ride free and at will. Losing that is quite a lot and for stupid acts, inexcusable.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:18 am 
RickI wrote:
It was interesting and sad, that for a few years the vast majority of our fatalities and severe injuries mainly occurred to the more experienced riders. Familiarity (experience) can breed contempt (for reasonable caution), and "I can handle it" strikes again. There are plenty of lost hang gliders, extreme divers, mountain climbers to back up this trend.

Still, our best riders are also the most able parties to alter the way they ride, when and if they are of a mind to do this. Fortunately, not ALL of our best riders are guilty of turning the fires up on access, only an unacceptable percentage. Years ago, it was fairly apparent that the two greatest threats to kiteboarding access were indifferent/ignorant new and well experienced riders. The intermediate guys often have a fair amount of caution still given some exposure to the sport and personal knowledge of some of the downsides.

Even our best riders will start to tumble to peer pressure and regulatory restrictions, at some point. The question is, how much are we going to be forced to lose until their prespective changes? Fingers crossed for a quick awakening but things will run their course and the consequences will be shared by all of us for the actions of irresponsible riders. Avoid problems or be slammed by their consequences, hmmm, tough decision?!

In the meantime, people doing "stupid" things are going to be labeled as "stupid" more of the time. If the odd hot rider thinks he looks stupid in a helmet, nearly scalping those bystanders will label the "hot" rider as a veritable nice person.

Count on it, riders are beginning to see the writing on the wall and develop reasonable fear for what is at stake to be lost. That is the freedom to ride free and at will. Losing that is quite a lot and for stupid acts, inexcusable.


Thanks Rick,

If I might paraphrase:

1, Yeah, in the begining it was the good guys who was getting wacked.
2. It's not all the good guys who are show offs
3. It's the rest of them plus the wanta-bees
4. intermeadiate riders seem to be the safest all around group
5 the show offs may change? if we bugger-um
6. we're toast most likely if they don't

Thanks Rick, hope I got that right.
fokiten

PS. So there it is.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:19 pm 
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Location: Antigua & Barbuda
Like every safety issue I think you have to qualify it with the existing conditions. If all riders stuck to the ideal of “distance (downwind) is your friendâ€


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:11 pm 
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I definitely agree that if you have the skills and want to take additional risks which won't affect others, that's really a matter of personal choice.

BUT if you take a risk that could result in a ban, that does affect others. (and we'll be pissed like you wouldn't believe...)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:15 pm 
[quote="Nik_KiteAntigua"]Like every safety issue I think you have to qualify it with the existing conditions. If all riders stuck to the ideal of “distance (downwind) is your friendâ€


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:28 pm 
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Location: St Pete
:spam:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:42 pm 
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Location: Miami @ 6" Flat Butter!
Nik_KiteAntigua wrote:
Same goes for the beach. Man……..I love to bust a big transition as I am nearing the beach to head back out off shore again. I just don’t do it if swimmers or anyone else is downwind of me. If the beach is clear I am taking the risk and I am not exposing the public to it.

If you are taking a personal risk without effecting others (who do not understand the risk) then GO FOR IT. Just remember to look downwind before you do anything and consider whether your gonna just scratch your helmet or if your are going to wipe out the entire population; then act accordingly.


Here we go.

That's how a pro rider who sometimes came to our spot 7 month ago messed up himself and still not riding.
You know why? Because he was overconfident that's why. We kept telling him not to jump too close to the shore at our spot it's damgers.

One day he was riding at his favor spot and he just made a usual jump close to the shore but this time he miscalculated, cause he had a bad landing on the shore. He injured his knee and other body parts and blaming the wind-gust.

Here we go.

DrLightWind


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:51 pm 
window guy wrote:
:spam:


You're improving, no threats, no name calling, no insults, Hmm? well ok, one attempted insult, but still a HUGE improvement

Bottled water?
===============================================



So let's get back to that feel good subject.

Window Guy,

I here your one of the pioneer spirits behind Kite leashes in Florida!

That's awesome man, keep up the good work.

The kiting community needs just a few more leashes here and there and we will be all set,,,,NICE.

One of our true heros...

fokiten

PS. that's so much easier isn't it? :wink: 8) 8) :-? :D :P :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:18 am 
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I hear what you are saying Nik and I sympathsize. Still, guys riding too close to shore, to bystanders, jumping close to and upwind of other kiteboarders/people in the water are a serious problem in many areas.

I spoke to some people at two launches recently about the penalties of riding too close to shore in our heavily populated and regulated area, including $500. in one area and contibuting to a threatened ban in the other. I also mentioned some specifics of recent bystander accident caused by careless riders coming too close to others. Interestingly enough, both people who were relatively new riders, responded, "go tell him", (very experienced riders) riding close to shore in each case. Then both guys promptly continued to ride within 20 ft. of a moderately crowded beach with their kites over bystanders.

If you are out in the middle of nowhere with no one to complain or potentially hurt, as you indicated, have fun. I hope Antigua is like that and always will be. Still, there are quite a few areas that are more crowded than that.

Time to call a spade a spade, people that threaten the safety of unknowing bystanders and contribute to complaints aren't cool, no matter what they may think. These acts are stupid and will continue to bring serious problems to lots of areas. The riders as Dr. Lightwind pointed out are by far the most at risk as supported by too many accidents but I suspect in many cases these guys haven't considered the hazard or don't take the threat seriously.

We need to work some changes, access is being lost. Changing riding behavior by example is one approach that deserves a shot vs. going hands off and trusting to ??? This is just one idea to deal with a common complaint in many areas. Effective solutions are welcome.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:31 pm 
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Location: St Pete
foe,
if i agree 2 no more shore shows will u agree 2 wear a leash?

you sound fairly inteligent but shit happens as u know.

at least u ride shackled so your not as selfish as some leashless riders i know. but shackles break and so do chicken loops and spreader bars and trim adjusters ect.

i know you've had a couple of bad experiences with ditching the kite, but i'm sure you've had a few bad experiences shaving, cooking, driving, expressing your opinion on forums, dating, drinking, working, sneezing, walking, ect. some things take practise.
if anyone should be anti-safty-leash it should be me as my leash when deployed improperly dragged me superman-style by the wrist cuff into the mangroves breaking 4 ribs and collapsing a lung.
memo 2 manufactureres "wrist cuffs should be banned" they either rip away when the leash is deloyed or get tangled during manuvers and if the kite repowers after ditching it's very hard to get out of quickly.

i see too many people pulling off sick tricks but are clueless when it comes to deploying the leash either in an emergency or 2 self land.

some of us live in very populated areas and theres no secluded swamps so getting on here and saying we should'nt ride the beach is wack. besides phlat water is boring.
secluded spots r 4 grwing pot and having wild sex.
a truly secluded spot could kill.
if one of your crew gets yoked and can't be moved is the paramedics gonna find you in time.
if my accident happened in a secluded spot where a cell phone doesn't come in or a chopper could'nt land i'd have been DOA. :alarm:


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