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 Post subject: Toro 2 16?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:04 pm 
Have some mixed feelings about my Toro 2 16m. Seems not to have much pop and goes downwind alot when gusty. I think every other kite I have tried and own flys better even my 2001 kites. Does any one else have any experience with the Toro 2 16 or tips on tuning it. I still like to use it. Its like sex and pizza even when its bad its still good.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 8:28 pm
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Location: Chicago, USA..
I too own the 16m Torro 2, and am not that impressed with it. For one thing it has no low end! I need like 15mph of wind to get going on it. I still dont have it tuned proper. I have messed around with the lines, but still cant figure it out. STF


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: worthing,uk
Theese kites dont like back line pressure.Wingtips should not flare at all.Unfortunately many of us have been caught out in the past with the toro 2,they are not good kites offering no lowend and zero lift.....Sell them for what you can is my advice.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:30 pm 
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Should the back lines be longer then? STF


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 60
Location: South Coast, UK
Hi guys,

As this kite flies off the front lines, the back lines should be slightly slack when flying. At max power the front and back lines should be equal (basically with no inward flair on the tips of the kite). One benefit of this is less bar pressure needed when flying the kite.

I've had a 12m and 16m Toro2 for over a year now, so just to give you another point of view on the Toro2 16m. Had a great session on mine yesterday in 18-20mph wind (I weigh 84kg's and use an Underground 120SWT) and had some good floaty jumps. These kites just like being used at the top end of their range, i.e. you should use a slightly bigger size than other kites. If everyone is out on 12's, use a Toro2 14m.

Regarding low end 'grunt', this is improved if you use the inner pigtails on the back lines to slow the turning speed down. I've found this also gives more constant pull.

These kites just take a little more tuning than some people are used to. Hope this helps.

Stace


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:40 am
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I was one of the poor suckers who bought a toro II 16m last summer. I agree the low end is terrible I was taken in by the marketing hype from north that suggested it was the right kite for 80% of kiters. As a result I spent most of last summer sat on the beach watching people have fun on their 16s.

When the wind picks up it's not to bad and as Stace says if you put up a size bigger than everyone else you will be ok.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:28 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: Wexford,Ireland
what about the toro2 14M anyone have any experiences of them? I have just bought one and was not too impressed with it, but i`ve only flown it once and it was in shit winds...It didnt seam to have much low end power of lift.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 6:34 am
Posts: 76
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I have a Toro 2 - 14 and it has not impressed me on plenty of occassions. :(

Only recently (like the comments above) I have come to call it and think of it as a twelve and I like it again.

Very stable, fast turning, massive top end. It is a great 12m kite (D :roll: !)

It means however that I have a bigger gap between it and my R2 20 than I wanted..

cheers
Paul


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:04 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:01 pm
Posts: 116
Location: Miami Beach, FL
Cut your losses on the Toro II. Get a new kite, any kite, just stop flying that one. At best you might stay upwind, but you can hardly go upwind. Zero lift. Not even possible to get lofted if a squal moves in. Very well made, but probably one of the worst performing kites out there. In the smaller sizes (>14) it is probably fine as higher winds make up for most kite inefficiencies, but the 16 & 18 (I had an 18 for three weeks and hated every minute) are horrible. I realized why I liked this sport again once I got a new large kite (traded it for an X2 20). No more walking, I could jump again, etc. If ever there was a case where it was the kite (and not the rider), this was it.

Funny how they are marketing the Vegas as "for 80%, the perfect kite.." Heard that before, not falling for it again (although I have heard a lot of good things about the Vegas, please come up with a new advertisement that won't bring back bad memories).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:05 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
I've a Toro2 12m and 16m. My board is a Cabrinha Spoiler 150. I've about 30 days of kiting experience. My weight is 75 kg.

2 of my friends are about the same weight and they share a 18m Aero2.
The 18m gets doesn't get them planing noticeable earlier than my 16m.

Talking about going upwind. The Toro2's go upwind well. Me and my 2 friends went to Cumbuco, Brasil a month a go, they would call me 'upwind Ian' because i was always way more upwind then they were. I can do wide jibes, jumps, other tricks, sail out and back to same place i started.
Even my brother, a beginner, can go upwind with it, he only kited 10 sessions or so. The key is to get the kite to the edge of the window. You do that by depowering the kite and edge your board, lean back. When the kite is at the edge of the window you can power it up. But be carefull, to much tension on the backlines will kill it's power, you have to find the sweetspot!

Both the 12m and 16m have loads of high end. To keep up in stron winds: Depower, send the kite to the edge of the window, just hold on and edge your board, it takes a few seconds to get it there. When it's there gusts are easily absorbed and you go upwind a lot. A friend of mine can do amazing jumps with his Rhino2, but he cannot hold on to his kite when the wind increases. I continue sailing easily when he has to stop because of his kite pullig too hard.

Jumping: i'm just starting to getting a hang of it. I had amazing high and far jumps with the 16 last weekend in 5 Bft winds. Other people were sailing 12m's with same weight. I was at least jumping as high and far as comparible kiters out there. So i agree, when everybody is sailing 12 and 14m's. Just put up a 16m Toro2. It has enough depower and is fun to sail in it's upper range.

So far i'm still happy with the Toro2's. I'm still progressing every session.
I do consider buying a set a Best Nemesis Performance kites to jump higher, especially in low winds. Medium aspect kites need more wind/bigger size to get comparable performance i think.

Everybody is always bashing the Toro2's when somebody asks a question about them. Maybe it's not the best intermediate kite out there, but I think if you set up the kite correctly (slacken those backlines!) you can have loads of fun with it.


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