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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:07 am 
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Eskimo Joe wrote:
Is this the answer? I wonder??

Q. With the front line load ending up directly on the leading edge casing at the strut junction when the kite is fully depowered.... Will the casing handle the stress/ deformation??? Has Windwing added substantial reinforcements in this area.. They've taken the front line load off the heavily reinforced normal front wingtip connection point and moved it up to a higher connection point on the leading edge casing.... I would think this would over-stress this area unless also heavily reinforced.....
I don't like the idea of passing the front lines through a fairlead or ring because the added frictional wear on the front lines then becomes a danger .....
Heavily loaded front lines sliding through any form of friction inducing ring scares me..... I kringe whenever I have to self land using the front line safety ring ..
In a freak accident, a broken line could be a killer too...
I'd like to see more pictures and test results. Perhaps this system will be truely revolutionary...

E.J.


Answers:

The kite's main tube is suitably reinforced to take the front line loads. The tube's geometry is also altered to optimize the front line load transfer from the tip. The front lines do not pass through a fairlead and there is no friction on them or risk of failure. They are 'hard-lined' all the way to the 'chicken loop.' The rear line transfer bridle does pass through the fairleads but is under a light load. The rear lines also have a 'hard line' secondary lead to the wingtip which takes the sheeting and steering loads under normal flying. This is a similar function to the JumpStart re-launch bridle. In short, all load bearing lines are 'hard lined' directly to the kite same as any traditional 4-line system. In the case of an unexpected front line breakage, the S.A.F.E. system is actually better than a traditional arrangement because the remaining load goes to the main tube same as a 5th line rather than the opposite wingtip. In the case of a rear line breakage, the S.A.F.E. system would be automatically deployed on that side which would still effectively de-power the kite.

Regarding the batten, the wingtips have an inflatable tip for flotation and structural stability. A removable carbon fiber batten is supplied to take compressive steering loads when the JumpStart option is used. It is not neccesarily required by the S.A.F.E. system and both the 2005 Rage II and Outrage fly fine without it when rigged in a traditional 4-line manner.

Best regards,
- Bill


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:14 am 
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Dax wrote:
Watching the video I'm impressed... you drop the bar, the kite depowers and keeps flying at the edge of the window and slowly drops down. Pick up the bar and the kite starts flying powered again. Seems like the most gentle form of depower seen yet. Also like SQ said it should help relaunch as there will be more tension towards the middle of the kite.

Also looks like the Windwing kites have inflatable end battens, so there must not be too much pressure on the tips.

I wonder how much front line length is required to activate the system? Do you need to use the Wingwing bar with the pulley?

Anyway, looks like an awesome system! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Go Windwing, it's your birthday, we gunna party like it's your birthday.

:dance:



See our other other post about the battens.
The S.A.F.E. system is easily activated at an arm's length (40-50cm.)
An extended range bar is required. We are offering two versions.
We are not sure about the meaning of your birthday reference but as a matter of fact, Windwing was indeed founded in October of 1982...

Best regards,
- Windwing R+D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:55 am 
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Posts: 393
sq225917 wrote:
so no riding against the stopper then, shame.

should help with relaunch.


You can use adjustable stoper balls and ride agains stoper as you like

I think it is perfect idea. Now just execution must be perfect

Kites will have much more range also

All IMO


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: Garmisch-Pa./Bavaria
I feel this kite is very much a backline flyer. If you can fully sheet out, you need to hold a lot of power when sheeting in. Can anyone explain how the load is transfered to the frontlines with a similar distribution as we currently have in top line kites ?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:42 am 
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Quote:
The kite's main tube is suitably reinforced to take the front line loads. The tube's geometry is also altered to optimize the front line load transfer from the tip. The front lines do not pass through a fairlead and there is no friction on them or risk of failure. They are 'hard-lined' all the way to the 'chicken loop.'


Looks very interesting. Definitely a step in the right direction.

Questions:
Are the Upper Front Towpoints always underload? It appears to me that the Upper Front Towpoints would take the load (most of it) anytime you are not fully powered. Perhaps you could explain or provide load bearing ratios on the Upper and Lower Front Towpoints covering full power, normal depower and 'killing the kite' (S.A.F.E.) depower.

I assume that direct purchases will go through your website which, at the moment, does not have any information on the S.A.F.E. system.

Thanks in advance!


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 Post subject: more info about S.A.F.E system windwing 05
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:44 am 
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for more informations, go to http://www.kitoo.com

to see it's work.

greatings

marc
WW europe importer

Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:58 pm 
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Location: Redwood City, CA
E.J. - The Windwings have extra long (~0.5m) pigtails on the kites of about 3 mm Spectra. There will be no wear on the kite lines themselves. (This is how it is on the current Jumpstart.)

Marco - Killer site! I'm LOL because it's better than Windwing's own homepage and has loads more information. (I know that has never been one of their priorities.)

Windwing R + D (aka Bill) - When I was up in Oregon in last month I heard that Bill H had moved back to the Bay Area. Welcome back if so. (And I hope you can bring out a slalom sail in the mid 5 range. :thumb: )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:12 pm 
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Location: Outside the Zone
It has been said that the front tube must be adequetly reinforced to sustain the forces and that retrofits will be compromised if construction is somehow inferior. Looking at the images of the kites, it does seem that a robust construction is employed i.e seaming and material section reinforcement are apparent all along the leading edge. Can you just briefly contrast your construction designs against your competitiors and where there maybe dramatic differences.

I know your windsurf sails were always bombproof and lead the industry in the early days. If this is the case with your kite construction than a retrofit on any competitors kite to deploy this system maybe self-defeating or at the least only marginaly effective.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:42 pm 
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Foxi wrote:
I feel this kite is very much a backline flyer. If you can fully sheet out, you need to hold a lot of power when sheeting in. Can anyone explain how the load is transfered to the frontlines with a similar distribution as we currently have in top line kites ?


Your 'feel' is wrong. Neither model (Rage II and Outrage) are backline fliers and they are most certainly 'top line' kites. The sheeting pressure on a kite is a function of many parameters effecting pitching moment such as foil profile, planform, canopy curve, wingtip width and center of pressure distribution. The load transfer is accomplished by using an extended range bar such as those shown in the pictures.

Best regards,
- Windwing R+D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:56 pm
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Windwing R&D (Bill)

Thanks for your reply to my front tube loading and front line wear questions.
I hope to see more close up photos of this system in the future, it seems like a better solution than adding an extra line (5th) and complicating a kite system..
I've seen a few of Windwing's windsurfing sails over the years and realize their high quality construction, I'm sure the kites will follow suit...
The illustration was just a little confusing to me as far as system operation and construction...

E.J....


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