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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:04 pm 
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Posts: 44
kite2surf wrote:
Quote:
The kite's main tube is suitably reinforced to take the front line loads. The tube's geometry is also altered to optimize the front line load transfer from the tip. The front lines do not pass through a fairlead and there is no friction on them or risk of failure. They are 'hard-lined' all the way to the 'chicken loop.'


Looks very interesting. Definitely a step in the right direction.

Questions:
Are the Upper Front Towpoints always underload? It appears to me that the Upper Front Towpoints would take the load (most of it) anytime you are not fully powered. Perhaps you could explain or provide load bearing ratios on the Upper and Lower Front Towpoints covering full power, normal depower and 'killing the kite' (S.A.F.E.) depower.

I assume that direct purchases will go through your website which, at the moment, does not have any information on the S.A.F.E. system.

Thanks in advance!


Yes. When the kite is set up for S.A.F.E. system flying, the front line load goes to the upper towpoints. The transfer bridle simply re-directs the load to the front of the wingtip preventing them from 'flaring out' when the kite is sheeted in.

The website and direct purchase program are handled independently from R+D. The website will be updated and direct purchasing details will be released shortly by Customer Support.

Best regards,
- Windwing R+D


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:38 pm 
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scott gibson wrote:
It has been said that the front tube must be adequetly reinforced to sustain the forces and that retrofits will be compromised if construction is somehow inferior. Looking at the images of the kites, it does seem that a robust construction is employed i.e seaming and material section reinforcement are apparent all along the leading edge. Can you just briefly contrast your construction designs against your competitiors and where there maybe dramatic differences.

I know your windsurf sails were always bombproof and lead the industry in the early days. If this is the case with your kite construction than a retrofit on any competitors kite to deploy this system maybe self-defeating or at the least only marginaly effective.


Scott:
Our goal is performance and durability. Our 2005 kites are thus accordingly designed for the S.A.F.E. system as well as the JumpStart re-launch system. Our 2005 designs are also based on developing a higher ratio of projected to actual area which means you can use a smaller flat area to achieve the same lift and performance of a larger kite. This saves weight and adds to speed, maneuverability and efficiency. To do this, an enhanced structure is needed to support the higher projected area. All 2005 Windwing kites have our new 'monocoque' construction where the tubes are uniform curves with integral connections rather than 'segmented' construction which is a combination of linear or flat surfaces. This eliminates the angular 'nodes' common to segmented construction which are often a source of structural distortion or weakness. In particular, our secondary struts are also faired into the top of the main tube and support the canopy fully to the front attachment point. This eliminates the 'blocky' entry evident on many kites where the struts are somewhat discontinuous from the main tube. We are also using numerous flat/glued profile seams which preserve the shape from nose to trailing edge as transverse seams create tight spots in the canopy which disrupt the airflow. Obviously, we think our 2005 construction is superior but there are many well-made kites on the market so one needs to closely inspect them side-by-side to see the subtle differences.

Best regards,
- Windwing R+D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:00 pm 
Windwing R+D wrote:
Scott:
Our goal is performance and durability. Our 2005 kites are thus accordingly designed for the S.A.F.E. system as well as the JumpStart re-launch system. Our 2005 designs are also based on developing a higher ratio of projected to actual area which means you can use a smaller flat area to achieve the same lift and performance of a larger kite. This saves weight and adds to speed, maneuverability and efficiency. To do this, an enhanced structure is needed to support the higher projected area. All 2005 Windwing kites have our new 'monocoque' construction where the tubes are uniform curves with integral connections rather than 'segmented' construction which is a combination of linear or flat surfaces. This eliminates the angular 'nodes' common to segmented construction which are often a source of structural distortion or weakness. In particular, our secondary struts are also faired into the top of the main tube and support the canopy fully to the front attachment point. This eliminates the 'blocky' entry evident on many kites where the struts are somewhat discontinuous from the main tube. We are also using numerous flat/glued profile seams which preserve the shape from nose to trailing edge as transverse seams create tight spots in the canopy which disrupt the airflow. Obviously, we think our 2005 construction is superior but there are many well-made kites on the market so one needs to closely inspect them side-by-side to see the subtle differences.

Best regards,
- Windwing R+D


My compliments on the hypo-speak, Damn nice!

Gum-b you paying attention?

This is what you need, a mouthpiece.

See how easy it is?

Now,without malice B--- kites are seen to be having>> angular nodes, a (now known) source of structural distortion or weakness!!!,,,'blocky' entry
discontinuous struts, transverse seams>> tight spots,which disrupt the airflow>>>YES YIKES!!!

Bust out that checkbook gum-be and buy some brains quick, your being out classed in a Big way.

R/D

Nice posting dude.

fokiten


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:50 pm 
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bill, congrats on a superbly executed system.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:18 pm 
I'll offer props for an original approach, but see a conflict with the concepts of other kite tipping experts,,,,Hm,,,

I see this more as a race to be new, yet feel the only true advancement in any of the gismos so far is in the ability to shut down the kite and render it powerless to drag you off and smash you into stuff.

This is what we really need,,,,,not more air,,,not more lift but a fucking off switch.

Let's see how it pays out

fokiten


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:28 pm 
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Location: Eilat, Israel
Cool stuff i'm really impressed :D :D
I was just wondering, can u use one central attachment point for both front lines instead of two or is it too weak.
Thanks, Slava


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:59 pm 
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slav wrote:
Cool stuff i'm really impressed :D :D
I was just wondering, can u use one central attachment point for both front lines instead of two or is it too weak.
Thanks, Slava


No.
If the front lines go to the center there are three problems: 1) The rear line tension (bar pressure) required to deflect them into a traditional 4-line configuration will be too high. 2) The extended bar range required to activate will become more than an arm's length. 3) When deployed, the kite will become unstable, wobble and spiral downwind like a 5 line system. The advantage of the S.A.F.E. system is that normal 4-line control over the kite is maintained at all times and it automatically flies to the edge of the window. The front lines need to lead fairly straight to the wingtip and thus, the kite's overall design and structure are a part of the system.

Best regards,
- Windwing R+D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:09 am 
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Location: Portland, Oregon
Windwing R+D wrote:
The website and direct purchase program are handled independently from R+D. The website will be updated and direct purchasing details will be released shortly by Customer Support.

Best regards,
- Windwing R+D


"Direct purchase program" eh? Tee hee! :D

:thumb:


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:03 am 
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Location: Portland, OR
<IMG SRC="http://images.ofoto.com/photos830/4/59/77/58/79/0/79587759406_0_ALB.jpg">


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:12 am 
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Location: Portland, OR
<IMG SRC="http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/images/photos/04f2b1384179aef29069e.gif>


http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/images/p ... 29069e.gif


Would the above 4-line system work as well as the Windwing idea? If so, I think this design would provide more kite shape stabilisation. The black stoppers would normally be pulled tight against the blue pulleys during flight. If the rider activated a traditional rear-line safety, the front lines would be slack, allowing the kite to fully flatten out and depower like a normal kite. During normal flight, the cross bridle effect would significantly stabilize the kite, and you would still have the extra depower offered by the high attachment point. Any thoughts???

Spencer


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