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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:26 am 
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Not to be negative or anything, but I should probably jump in here.

The diagram of the Windwing SAFE system seems to show a bridle that's functionally identical to the Buster bridle, which went into production in February of this year (see image at http://w3.gorge.net/kwinner/busterbridle.jpg ).

Bill, John, what do you think? Different or similar?

Best regards, Ken Winner


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:26 pm 
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KW wrote:
Not to be negative or anything, but I should probably jump in here.

The diagram of the Windwing SAFE system seems to show a bridle that's functionally identical to the Buster bridle, which went into production in February of this year (see image at http://w3.gorge.net/kwinner/busterbridle.jpg ).

Bill, John, what do you think? Different or similar?

Best regards, Ken Winner


Comparing the photo, it also seems for me to be the same system (just the two Towpoints not so far away).
But who cares when it is working as promised.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:53 pm 
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Reply to Ken,

Posted on "Windwing Safe System"

Windwing R&D


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:13 pm 
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In the other thread (which has since slipped to page 3 due to patent issues) R+D said that the new bars have a center line punch out system. I don't see that in the pictures. Could one of you please explain it better?

And, can I get my '04 Outrage retrofitted?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:38 pm 
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Bullroarer Took wrote:
In the other thread (which has since slipped to page 3 due to patent issues) R+D said that the new bars have a center line punch out system. I don't see that in the pictures. Could one of you please explain it better?

And, can I get my '04 Outrage retrofitted?


The "punch out system" is a misuse of the term. We ment a release system to the center line. The '04 Outrage can be retrofitted but you will need a sail maker to attach two tow points on the leading edge.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:49 pm 
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Thanks for the reply C+S. (Is that you Will?) I thought you were all out shredding or in sales meetings to get ready for your new 'WindExpress' venture. Best of luck with that. As it happens, I already have two attachment point sewn onto my Outrage (professionally) as I retrofitted a 5th line system. These points are about 3 feet on either side of the center strut. I am guessing that is 'too central' for the SAFE system. Approximately where would these points need to be located?

Also, I believe R+D said that the bar travel needs to be about 50 cm for the SAFE system. That's alot for waist harness users, even with my long arms. Care to comment?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:58 pm 
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BT,

Gotta commend you for your persistance to find answers! Geezzz... make us give all our secrets away? Your 04 Outrage will work, however not as well as a 05. Not trying to make you buy a new kite but the 05's structure has been modified to use with the bridle system.

Better off with the center line safety on the 04 Outrage.

The 50cm travel is for complete depower....when the bar is outta grasp, say a handle pass move. Otherwise think of it as extended range when riding.

Windwing R&D


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 Post subject: Windwing Construction
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:38 am 
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This is my second season kiteing. My "beach" is mostly jagged shells and barnacles. My major concern aside from getting dragged across them is kite durability. There are only about 8 kiters in my town and we all have an assortment of top end kites. I just wanted to say my two Windwing Outrages are the only two kites that haven’t either ripped or blown bladders. As a matter of fact one day this summer while derigging, my windsurfing buddy (soon to be kitting buddy) ran over my Outrage while it was lying on the grass in his SUV with the struts all fully inflated. He was backing up and bump bump bump. He ran over 3 struts. I screamed so the nice person then pulled forward and ran them over again! To my amazement, zero damage! I have put these 2 kites through the ringer and they still look like new. On a few gusty days the kite and I met some barnacle covered rocks and bush branches. I sprung a few holes but my kite came out unscathed. Nice job R&D. You definitely put some serious thought into the durability aspect of construction. I love the relaunch feature and now adding the SAFE system I am going to be in heaven. Sign me up for the first 3 available!

Auggie.

Windwing R+D wrote:
scott gibson wrote:
It has been said that the front tube must be adequetly reinforced to sustain the forces and that retrofits will be compromised if construction is somehow inferior. Looking at the images of the kites, it does seem that a robust construction is employed i.e seaming and material section reinforcement are apparent all along the leading edge. Can you just briefly contrast your construction designs against your competitiors and where there maybe dramatic differences.

I know your windsurf sails were always bombproof and lead the industry in the early days. If this is the case with your kite construction than a retrofit on any competitors kite to deploy this system maybe self-defeating or at the least only marginaly effective.


Scott:
Our goal is performance and durability. Our 2005 kites are thus accordingly designed for the S.A.F.E. system as well as the JumpStart re-launch system. Our 2005 designs are also based on developing a higher ratio of projected to actual area which means you can use a smaller flat area to achieve the same lift and performance of a larger kite. This saves weight and adds to speed, maneuverability and efficiency. To do this, an enhanced structure is needed to support the higher projected area. All 2005 Windwing kites have our new 'monocoque' construction where the tubes are uniform curves with integral connections rather than 'segmented' construction which is a combination of linear or flat surfaces. This eliminates the angular 'nodes' common to segmented construction which are often a source of structural distortion or weakness. In particular, our secondary struts are also faired into the top of the main tube and support the canopy fully to the front attachment point. This eliminates the 'blocky' entry evident on many kites where the struts are somewhat discontinuous from the main tube. We are also using numerous flat/glued profile seams which preserve the shape from nose to trailing edge as transverse seams create tight spots in the canopy which disrupt the airflow. Obviously, we think our 2005 construction is superior but there are many well-made kites on the market so one needs to closely inspect them side-by-side to see the subtle differences.

Best regards,
- Windwing R+D


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