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 Post subject: Short lines, short bars on fast turning wave kites
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:53 pm 
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
I'm going to be buying wave kites this year and I'm curious about bars and lines. It's my understanding that most wave kites are very fast turning so why would you want or need short lines ?

Another question: Why would you want short lines with a short bar ? Isn't a short bar used to slow down a fast turning small kite ? Then why would you then put ( fast turning ) short lines on a ( slow turning ) short bar ?

I've used short lines before on medium size Rebels and liked the quicker response, but didn't like the trade-off of poor freestyle performance. I'm sure the Neo I'm getting is way faster turning than the Rebel so will I want shorter line sets, as well ?


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 Post subject: Re: Short lines, short bars on fast turning wave kites
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:07 pm 
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Location: Maui
A kite will transition quicker across the window on short lines and produce less power which is favored by some strapless riders.


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 Post subject: Re: Short lines, short bars on fast turning wave kites
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:12 pm
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Location: Ontario
Bar length is a personal preference. Over the years, I've settled into pretty short bars. 45 cm for general use and a 50cm for a wave bar. The kite only understands line length differential and I can achieve the same turning with a shorter bar by being more aggressive with amount of input I give the bar. Watch most videos and its actually pretty challenging some times to see when people pull the trigger or pull the kite back forward, cause their input is pretty minimal. A little more bar input and you can get much the same reaction and rate of turn on a shorter bar with a little less unwanted input when desired.

Go with whatever you like the feel of. I don't really have any big kites so short bars work for me. I find big bars like big anything. Ungainly and less fun in most cases.


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 Post subject: Re: Short lines, short bars on fast turning wave kites
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:39 pm 
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Q. Why need short lines?
A. You dont. Cause and effect: Shortening lines is the attempt (effect) of a rider to speed up his kite, because he is unable (cause) to do multiple turns on a wave.

Q. Why is he unable to do multiple turns?
A. Because he is kiting, not surfing. Overspeeding the speed of the wave means you will have to turn your kite to get back to the wave.

Q. Why would you want a short bar?
A. Shorter bar requires more effort turning the kite, thus making you more aware of what you are actually doing. Besides, there is no point in increasing turning speed with a bigger bar once youre done kiting and start surfing!

Just my opinion: Stop chasing fast turning kites for waveriding. You dont need them. The more you are steering the less you are surfing. Get a bigger board, reduce your speed and actually CONNECT with the wave for once. You'll love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Short lines, short bars on fast turning wave kites
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:13 pm 
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For most riders, except a few going the full "surf" way parked and maybe unhooked, a wavekite can not be too fast :thumb:

I for one, use the fastest turning kites out there, and I dont even use a shorter bar for the small ones either (5 and 6m2).

Many has short lines, as they will make you able to kite much more "free" on the waves, as you can redirect and change direction instantly, without moving the kite a bit before your turn :naughty:
Short lines is typically 18 to 20m, as shorter is too extreme and feels bad most often.

There is a downside though, as they get more on/off and dont feel as smooth and fluid - besides lacking the sweep power often needed in waves where the wind is "down" a bit right in the impact zone often.

So around here many are using 20-22m lines for waveriding as a good general lenght that works in about everything :rollgrin:

But Don, you asked about short lines and fast turning kites as if they are connected ?

No, they are not.

A fast turning kite works great on longer lines too, say 24m (a kite can NEVER be too fast for waveriding IMO), as you can position the kite whereever you want, in any height above the water, and do this onehanded easily.
Whereas shorter lines changes the dynamic window a lot both good and bad, and some find it great, others hate it.

You will have to find out yourself Don.

8) Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Short lines, short bars on fast turning wave kites
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:09 am 
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Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 4:43 am
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blacktip wrote:
Q. Why need short lines?
A. You dont. Cause and effect: Shortening lines is the attempt (effect) of a rider to speed up his kite, because he is unable (cause) to do multiple turns on a wave.

Q. Why is he unable to do multiple turns?
A. Because he is kiting, not surfing. Overspeeding the speed of the wave means you will have to turn your kite to get back to the wave.

Q. Why would you want a short bar?
A. Shorter bar requires more effort turning the kite, thus making you more aware of what you are actually doing. Besides, there is no point in increasing turning speed with a bigger bar once youre done kiting and start surfing!

Just my opinion: Stop chasing fast turning kites for waveriding. You dont need them. The more you are steering the less you are surfing. Get a bigger board, reduce your speed and actually CONNECT with the wave for once. You'll love it.


I agree with this, as long as the waves you have are big enough. In small waves, I'd much rather use the power of the kite. That is a lot of fun too.

For that reason, I choose extremely fast kites, short lines and a wide bar. Fast kites and short lines mean I have flexibility in kite powered turns - I can make them very big or very small. A wide bar means I can do all that flying the kite one handed. And when I want to ride the wave with as little kite power as possible, as blacktip points out, you don't need those attributes. But they don't hurt either. For riding the wave without kite power, drift is an important kite characteristic.

So, I choose fast kites, short lines, a wide bar and kites that drift, because that means I can ride waves however I want - with or without kite power. I think that options like that make chasing fast kites a desirable thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Short lines, short bars on fast turning wave kites
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:53 am 
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Right Cleepa, you have the option to either surf the wave kite not moving much, or ride aggressively - both is options with fast kites and not long lines :thumb:

What is short lines for you ? (Talking wave kites 9m2 max for average weights)

8) Peter


Last edited by Peter_Frank on Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Short lines, short bars on fast turning wave kites
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:05 am 
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Hey Don, I've actually asked myself the same question. Like you I'm getting some Neo for wave riding and I'm used to Rebels.. I occasionally have to ride a Rebel 12 on waves and that's a no. I'm going to get a Neo 11m for the job but I wonder whether is worthwhile going for 22m lines which they only come on the smaller bar and that's the problem in my view..
I've flown shorter lines Wainmans before and can be real fun but it all depends on kite size and wave riding style.
A medium-big kite on shorter lines might not work... especially on gusty winds. It would be nice to have a long-short set up option in the same bar like in the Wainmans.


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 Post subject: Re: Short lines, short bars on fast turning wave kites
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 4:43 am
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Peter_Frank wrote:
Right Cleepa, you have the option to either surf the wave kite not moving much, or ride aggressively - both is options with fast kites and not long lines :thumb:

What is short lines for you ? (Talking wave kites 9m2 max for average weights)

8) Peter


I always use 17m lines.


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 Post subject: Re: Short lines, short bars on fast turning wave kites
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:36 pm
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Hey, thanks everybody for your input...........

I can see I have a lot to look forward to with these new Neo's. I've flown mostly Rebels for the last 10 years and will continue to use them, but I'm up to try something new.........

Judging from most of the comments it's going to be riding style that will change and I like Peter's claim that "a wave kite cannot be too fast". I still like to jump and do other freestyle stuff as well as wave ride so, I'll order new bars with 22m lines and go from there...........

Again, thanks everybody.............


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