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canopy strength

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Kitedude
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Postby Kitedude » Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:57 pm

ocean rodeo have a ferature too

SXS SHOX STRIPS

SXS Dacron Shox strips create a Dacron framework that takes the brunt of the load over the canopy of the kite. SXS construction prevents tears, and controls canopy distortion. SXS = unmatched durability.

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Postby KiteKarl » Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:19 pm

ScottM wrote:Makes sense SQ, just wondered where Kitekarl saw the tearing? Is it caused by rubbing on the strut?

I put fair mileage on my stuff, just wondering where I should be looking to spot potential trouble?
sq225917 wrote:scott the CFT runs along the TE then down the side of the strut and the opens out along the back of the LE. it's between the strut and canopy along the entire length of the strut.

principle is that it's a tougher cloth, cut on the curve with no quick transitions so it allows impact stress/loading to travel along it and through the entire kite. rather than hitting the first edge or corner and tearing and lifting off a strut.

it's just where it needs to be, where material chnages and component weight is located.
This isn't a rubbing thing, it's just when canopies get old they will tear at the point of the most accumulated stress which is on both sides of the center strut. Typically this will happen in a kites second or third season depending on use and conditions. SQ, it sounds like you guys have the right idea.

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Re: canopy strength

Postby KiteKarl » Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:22 pm

dewey wrote:
KiteKarl wrote:It seems like when all kites get old and get the inevitable canopy tear it does so on either side of the center strut. Knowing this, why don't manufacturers put a heavier guage material on the canopy on both sides of the center strut? Now you can say "planned obsolescence", but I would gladly buy a reinforced canopy kite and pay more as well as deal with the extra weight. One or two seasons for a kite is not alot of value at these prices.
Carl,

Where have you been? Paul and I were out at Sherman with only 2 others all afternoon lit. Paul was asking what happened to you. Do you have any kites left? I know it's been a bad year for you. I still have my kites from last year that you could borrow if you need a kite. Let me know.

Dewey
Thanks Dewey. After an extended battle with Fedex I finally got my 11M Sonic back so I'll seeya out there today if the wind at SI stops being a finicky little bitch.

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Postby PBKiteboarding » Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:33 pm

I find it's hard to tell where it starts... But if you look at the LE area of canopy... where it is first connected to the fron part of the strut is where it's critical... (Rips there then continues up to TE) so if there is at least an extra band of frabric... sewn to canopy in that area... it can help allot... the extra curved panel double layer... all the way to the LE... looks like best does it... can make huge difference...

Since the corner area right at the LE can break loose in time... relaunching bending the LE in that area seems to put stress... through leverage....

The Designers know that... but it cost to sew extra panels... Looks like best is doing it... nice... Kites are getting so good with performance... making them last longer... could be the trend...

What I've noticed from doing kite repair...

So you could have any kite reinforced... to prevent that...

Paul Berube
http://www.PBKiteboarding.com

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Postby aahi » Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:40 pm

SQ, it sounds like you guys have the right idea.
.... that they borrowed from the rrd type wave ....

I know everyone borrows ideas from everyone else, just want to make sure that the credit goes to the right people....

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Postby Dano the Great! » Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:50 pm

Hey SQ, are/have you guys implemented anything like CFT on the LE seams of your Waroo kites?

I’ve seen and heard about a number of Waroo leading edges exploding at the seams recently.

Thanks for the info. ~DtG!
sq225917 wrote:i've got 3 words for you...

'canopy framing technology'

on all our 07 kites..

Image

runs from the trailing edge up the strut and spreads out again behind the LE. every canopy section has it.

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Postby Ozone Kites AUS » Sat Aug 12, 2006 2:23 am

aahi wrote:
SQ, it sounds like you guys have the right idea.
.... that they borrowed from the rrd type wave ....

I know everyone borrows ideas from everyone else, just want to make sure that the credit goes to the right people....
Then it should be mentioned that Slingshot were the first to do it, with the Splitstrut Fuels.
By that time most brands had adopted the dacron strip attaching the sail to the leading edge. One of the first kites I saw this strip on was the Flexifoil Storm 1 kites back in 2000/2001.
So called canopy framing nology is an extension of this dacron strip, however it adds weight. Provided that the added weight is compensated for in the balance of the design, no real problem other than slightly less bottom end performance.
Most brands nowadays use a mark cloth strip along the strut seams to allow for easier repairs. Remarkably though some brands still do not reinforce the strut seams!!!

I have not seen a Best kite with the framing nology, but there is no doubt that for surf toughness the Slingshot kites are the standard to beat, and from the pics the Best kites should be strong too.

We see a lot of kites, and do lots of repairs, anything that manufacturers can do to increase strength in critical areas of the kites and to reduce repair costs is great.
It does increase manufacturing costs, and that will be reflected in slightly higher retail prices for kites with this nology, worth paying for in my experience.

Of course you have to like the way the kite flies too.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

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Postby sflinux » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:50 am

I've owned kites since 2001 and have yet to have a canopy break from old age (though I've seen a few do this). I have had a section of canopy tear from a 5th line wrap. And I've had canopy rip from previous tears from rocks.
For me, the real odomoter reading of a kite is the stitching on the leading edge bladder, or the integrity of the leading edge fabric itself. Pre-2003, many kites had this stitching on the bottom, which was exposed when the kite was stored on the beach, gradually wearing away on the stitching. When the stitching goes, the bladder goes pop. Repairing a canopy is cheap and easy compared to replacing the leading edge fabric or replacing the leading edge bladder. The difference between a good quality kite and a poor quality kite for me is, the strength and reinforcement of the leading edge fabric. For me the brands that always seemed to use the best materials are the ones made to be tough; like slingshot.

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Postby raoul » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:05 am

Strengthening one section of the kite will not fix the problem ! it will move the problem.

I have been building remote control airplanes for over 10 years. I know some bit about strength.
Take a wing for example. most the load is on the center part where the left and right wing connect. that is the part that gets the most strengthening. We do it with fiber glass + epoxy. If you put a small piece - lets say 2" wide the stress now is on the edge of those 2". obviously it is les stress but if the part of the wing there isnt strong it will break there. All the load is now centerd to the edge of the fiberglass part.

So to cut a long story short, you cant just make the center stronger. What you do is simply move the tention to the edge of the strong part and scrifice it tearing there.

OK ... I think I understand myself - anyone else? :o

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leading edge explosion

Postby occidental tourist » Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:58 pm

[quote="Dano the Great!"]
I’ve seen and heard about a number of Waroo leading edges exploding at the seams recently.

I was literally ready to buy a Waroo 16 yesterday but have just heard from my friend who bought one that his leading edge exploded at the stitching. I fail to see how canopy framing technology protects the leading edge from exploding.

It doesn't appear, as yet, that this has been an extremely widespread phenomenon, but this has happened to my friend TWICE this season. Best sent him a new kite after he sent the first one back.

He is good kiter, very conservative in style. He doesn't crash or stress his kites. He was on the beach in Rhode Island the day his second Waroo 16 blew up while it was sitting on the water in calm wind waiting for a puff for a downwind launch and another guy from Connecticut put away his Waroo 16 because he noticed the leaded edge seam stitching was unraveling.

It may be that this is a problem that affects very few kites, but Murphy appears to have struck the Rhode Island beach twice in one day. Don't know if that is better or worse average than lightening, but it has made me very nervous about buying a Waroo 16.

Although I know Best kites are very affordable for what they offer, I have never spent more than $350 for a kite. I mostly have bought demos and used. Even buying a Waroo 16 used for $750 would be almost twice what I have ever paid for a kite and the chance that there could be a leading edge failure that was not backed up by the manufacturer (I think they have a three month warranty, so most of the 2006s out there are going to be getting out of warranty anytime now) is of great concern to this kiter on a budget.

If this is a repeated problem, even with a subset of these kites, I would expect Best to make it right regardless of 3 month warranty and fix the design or quality control in 2007. I can understand if the kite is a couple years old and has been used and abused or just worn, but as this thread demonstrates, most longterm wear shows up elsewhere and there is no such thing as even a year old Waroo yet. An exploding leading edge on a ktie they say you have to blow up the hell out of isn't a justifiable way for a kite to exit this mortal coil unless it is being regularly slammed in the ground or something. This seems to be the area that needs reinforcing. I just don't think I can pull the trigger for $750 bucks without an answer to this leading edge question.

I don't buy into the negative review trading or any anti-best phenomenon. I've got a BFK 18 and the kite stands up. I am not quite as comfortable with its performance because I don't ride it as much, and when I do it is often in the lowest most flukey winds but seems to be well made and no manufacturing problems. I have seen many people flying 12 14 and 16 waroos in Rhode Island. Definitely the most popular Bow kite around here. Performance has been exceptional (the guy whose Waroo 16 exploded was staying upwind in the lightest stuff when my 16M F-one M5 which is usually pretty good was letting me down[wind])

I was disappointed in the response by SQ although I know this is a thread on canopy strength, the question was clearly about exploding leading edges.

Can anyone, Best or otherwise, respond to these concerns or offer relevant experiences.

Thanks,

Brian


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