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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:38 pm 
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panchito wrote:
.... though once I forgot to connect the 5th line... casue I wanted so hard to get into the water...


I've been there. Sometimes, the adrenaline rush can really cloud my
judgement.. I just can't wait to get on the water, and miss something.
This used to be much worse during the widsurfing days. I would forget to
buckle my harness before getting on the water.

I figure that if I had chosen hangliding instead, I'd be dead by now, becuse
I would have forgotten to hook up something, and once you launch in that
sport, there's no return... :o

Anyway, my point is that given the opprtunity, we'll mess something up
sooner or later. The objective is to remove as many 'opportunities'
to screw ourselves, as possible.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:46 pm 
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viktor wrote:
kitezilla wrote:
Anybody have any ideas?


Take your favourite marker pen and write a checklist on the kite
Put two balls on one side of the rear lines
Put double pigtails on one side
Take four rings and four balls in increasing size
Just take one extra check when attached all the lines to see that the color match up, 10 seconds of just checking it all again is better then attaching double fail safety systems on the kite I would say. :)



Viktor,

You had me going on the "double pigtails" idea...I was just sitting here with my mouth open, staring at the screen, going Wowwww. Actually, I'm looking for a type of connector which would be non-metalic and lightweight.

Shoot...your ideas are better than mine even when you are just kidding!

Imagine what you would come up with if you put some real thought into it!!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:42 pm 
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I think the knot to loop difference between from and back line and color coding for the lines are safe enough. Really, if you get so distracted that putting red on blue, then I don't think there is much that can be done. :-)

In addition to the knot to loop difference between front and back line, my front lines are grey, and my left backline line red, and right back line blue. The back pigtail has the same color as the backline that is supposed to be attached. This is the standard Naish setup, and it work perfectly fine.

I think the only thing that would mess things up is if I forgot the attach one of the lines....the only thing I can think of that would make it more safe is if there is a lock and key kind of setup, where the line could only be attached to one pigtail.

Kitezilla, I think this is a good and important topic, especially since people seem to do this wrong a lot, but at some point the riders has to take responsibility for their own setup, like you seem to have done. I also agree with Toby that having an industry standard would be great, but I don't think it is very feasible.

A.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:19 pm 
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For those that are dismayed that natural selection and survival of the fittest seems to not be working, don't despair. I am sure that you will recognize that comments like "don't you guys check your lines" are clear indications of an entire subgroup of the kiting species that is aching for extinction.

I think this is a great topic and would be psyched for some elegant solutions. Would have broken less bones if these had been around. I was a checker who tried hard to remove myself from the gene pool, unknowingly.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:24 pm 
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Location: Hawaii, UG Boards, Off DaLip.com,KSK,Eclipse kites
good luck,....
metal on metal...snapp!
the rings will break...too much stress!

Just check and double check lines before yu go out.

knotts and loops like north work just fine for a kook. Works for me :-)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:36 pm 
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@kitezilla
here you have another one
put a ring at one side of the kite and then create a pigtail with a knot and larkshead on the end so that you loop it through the ring and then connects it back to the knot,

kite_n_rnd wrote:
The objective is to remove as many 'opportunities'
to screw ourselves, as possible.


well, Im off to round off that corner on the table befor I put my helmet on so I could go to the toilet, (number of toiled related accident is rocketing!)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:01 am 
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[quote="tautologies"]

"Really, if you get so distracted that putting red on blue, then I don't think there is much that can be done."


Unless.....hmmmm......Unless, it just can't physically be done.

Mechanical engineers (I know quite a few, and believe me, they get a kick out of me and my tinkering), ... call the concept "Stupid Proofing". This concept is incorporated into almost everything they design from automobile design to PVC pipe and connector design. For example, it is impossible (without concentrated effort) to insert any element of PVC cold water pipe or connectors into the CPVC Hot water system of your house. The engineers made it "Stupid Proof". The engineers did not say: "Hey, the pipe is already a different color...that's got to be good enough." No, they make it physically impossible to mix up the pieces to the hot and cold water systems...and that is then "good enough".

Hey, Bill Gates may be the smartest man in the world, but he drives a car that has been "stupid proofed". I doubt if he feels insulted even though he is smart enough to remember to turn on the backup lights, every time he puts the car in reverse, but he drives a car that won't allow him to back up without the lights coming. The engineers saw to that, when they designed the transmission and electrical system.

Real engineers design stuff with double and triple redundancy. They don't do this to insult the intelligence of the end user of the product. They don't say to each other: "Hey, Les and Jeff, this design is good enough. Only an idiot would screw this machine up..." They don't arrogantly say to each other: "If someone isn't smart enough to use this device within our strict design parameters, they are hopeless imbiciles, and they should get a life, and wise up".

Real Engineers know that things do not always go as planned. They base their actions on the fact that real live people (1) don't always make good decisions (2) like to fiddle with mechanical things (3) don't always use devices for their intended purpose (4) are careless when distracted or under stress and (5) Bla, bla,bla ...I'll stop here.


Tautologies,

I apologize for using your statement as a springboard. I appreciate the detail, you include in your posts, and I really can't disagree with anything you said...but..I am wound up and it doesn't take much to set me off, today!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 12:23 am 
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Words to live by:

“The objective is to remove as many 'opportunities'
to screw ourselves, as possible.â€Â


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:34 am 
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hey i am with you on this subject

make screw ups all the time, myself, most of them haven't been fatal.... :)

anything that helps me figure out that the kite is rigged correctly is ok in my books

let us know if you figure anything out!

David


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:39 am 
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and thank God for spell check. I check and check, but the computer keeps finding more mistakes.

Kitezilla, well stated. Design out the hazards. You can tell poor engineering by hazards that should have and could have been eliminated by some clever thinking.

Toby where is the spell check on this thing? I keep looking careless as I am making my point.


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