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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:55 am 
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dpca10 wrote:
How are you supposto fit the drysuit. I couldn't immagine wearing a fleece under any wetsuit. How much material do you actually need to keep warm?


Excellent question!

It depends on both the air and water temperature - the key is to layer underneath the Pyro with the proper gear. There is far more detail and product info here:

http://www.oceanrodeo.com/surfing/thermallayers.php

Pyro Surf

The coldwater wetsuit has been cancelled.....


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:33 am 
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Just keep in mind that a torn drysuit fills with water fast especially if you have to bodydrag. With no drainage at the ankles it will turn into an achor and you are at total mercy of the currents. Once water is in thermal protection is gone and exposure becomes a major hazard.
Last year there were two fatalities I heard of related to drysuits.
Remember you can quickly get 150 lbs of water into a damaged drysuit and remember that when you have a kite in the air and your in the water you are always moving and potentially scooping up water. Yes the 150 lbs are "neutral" when it ccomes to floatation, but the slightest current can be fatal.
Swimming is also harder with a drysuit. Any undergarments should be specifically designed to be used under a drysuit. Baggy fleece is a no no.
The speed at which kiters get dragged through water can make water penetrate unlike it would diving or surfing.

Just to be on the safe side it's a good idea to use as rounded off fins as possible. You don't want to be tumbling around in a big wave with a "sharp finned" board.

Unlike regualr wetsuits maintinance with a drysuit has to be perfect.
I'm not a nay sayer, but the risks are there.

Pricy buggers too. You could make a trip to a nice warm place where you can kite but naked for the price of one. Kiting butt naked... priceless.. but shrikage can be embarissing :wink: :thumb:

Cheers

Fred


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:06 pm 
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dpca10 wrote:
How are you supposto fit the drysuit. I couldn't immagine wearing a fleece under any wetsuit. How much material do you actually need to keep warm?


They are like reinforced ziplock bags with seals at the neck and wrists. You just climb into them and close the water tight zipper across the chest or back. Then bleed the air out by crouching down and pulling the neck seal open with your hand. Best to get integrated latex socks. They fit nicely into surf booties. When you climb out of it you are basically dry (slightly damp from body moisture).

They are genearlly pretty loose so you can wear anything from nothing to a thick fleece top and bottom. For weather in the 50's and water in the mid 60's I usually use a very thin fleece sweat shirt and surf shorts and thin socks. It's best not to dress too warm or you will get sweaty inside.

Chris


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:31 pm 
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FredBGG wrote:
Just keep in mind that a torn drysuit fills with water fast especially if you have to bodydrag. With no drainage at the ankles it will turn into an achor and you are at total mercy of the currents. Once water is in thermal protection is gone and exposure becomes a major hazard.
Last year there were two fatalities I heard of related to drysuits.
Remember you can quickly get 150 lbs of water into a damaged drysuit and remember that when you have a kite in the air and your in the water you are always moving and potentially scooping up water. Yes the 150 lbs are "neutral" when it ccomes to floatation, but the slightest current can be fatal.
Swimming is also harder with a drysuit. Any undergarments should be specifically designed to be used under a drysuit. Baggy fleece is a no no.
The speed at which kiters get dragged through water can make water penetrate unlike it would diving or surfing.

Just to be on the safe side it's a good idea to use as rounded off fins as possible. You don't want to be tumbling around in a big wave with a "sharp finned" board.

Unlike regualr wetsuits maintinance with a drysuit has to be perfect.
I'm not a nay sayer, but the risks are there.

Pricy buggers too. You could make a trip to a nice warm place where you can kite but naked for the price of one. Kiting butt naked... priceless.. but shrikage can be embarissing :wink: :thumb:

Cheers

Fred


Nag nag nag, we've been all over this.
Loving my Mystic Lightning :thumb:

Back on topic:
Snowboard: Why?
Surf: If you're afraid for wear on your suit, wear a kitesurf impactfast or something like that and be sure to let all air out like said earlier in this topic.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:15 pm 
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FredBGG wrote:
Just keep in mind that a torn drysuit fills with water fast especially if you have to bodydrag. With no drainage at the ankles it will turn into an achor and you are at total mercy of the currents. Once water is in thermal protection is gone and exposure becomes a major hazard.
Last year there were two fatalities I heard of related to drysuits.
Remember you can quickly get 150 lbs of water into a damaged drysuit and remember that when you have a kite in the air and your in the water you are always moving and potentially scooping up water. Yes the 150 lbs are "neutral" when it ccomes to floatation, but the slightest current can be fatal.
Swimming is also harder with a drysuit. Any undergarments should be specifically designed to be used under a drysuit. Baggy fleece is a no no.
The speed at which kiters get dragged through water can make water penetrate unlike it would diving or surfing.

Just to be on the safe side it's a good idea to use as rounded off fins as possible. You don't want to be tumbling around in a big wave with a "sharp finned" board.

Unlike regualr wetsuits maintinance with a drysuit has to be perfect.
I'm not a nay sayer, but the risks are there.

Pricy buggers too. You could make a trip to a nice warm place where you can kite but naked for the price of one. Kiting butt naked... priceless.. but shrikage can be embarissing :wink: :thumb:

Cheers

Fred


Fred, great point about maintenance. Just like any high tech piece of equipment, it is important that it is maintained properly and taken care of. With the Pyro, this involves rinsing it off with freshwater after use, keeping the zipper waxed, and hanging it up out of the sun to dry it off. It's also a good idea to inspect your seals once in a while for signs of wear etc. If in doubt, the seals are easily replaced by the user.

With regards to accidents, in all of the years selling Pyros, to my knowledge there has never been a report of a " sunken rider " or death in one, and if ease of swimming is a concern, I urge you to try out the Pyro Surf. It's streamlined, offers an unlimited range of mobility, light, and you can duck dive in it due to low buoyancy. It also offers a huge temperature range, covering 3mm to 6mm wetsuits, eliminating the need to buy more than one suit. :thumb:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:45 pm 
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I thought I would jump into the fray with this one and address some of Fred's comments, while I doubt he is intentionally being misleading there were a lot of mistakes in his posting... :roll:

FredBGG wrote:
Just keep in mind that a torn drysuit fills with water fast especially if you have to bodydrag. With no drainage at the ankles it will turn into an achor and you are at total mercy of the currents.


This is not true, at all. We have cut a 6" gash in the leg of our suits and jumped in the water and this is not the case. Remember that before riding the user of a drysuit will "burp" excess air out of the suit. This is not something you need to remember to do, it is a natural instinct as otherwise you feel like the Michelin Man! With a properly burped suit the water pushes the suit against your body when you are submurged. It is actually a very weird feeling initially, kind of like being shrunk wrapped! Given that the suit is tight up against your body in the event of a large cut to the suit you will end up with only minnor seeping of water in around the cut and not a rush of water. In fact, in order to fill even partially one leg of a torn suit you need to do a lot of work to hold the cut open and pull the suit (now sucked up against your leg) away from you and allow the water to come in.

FredBGG wrote:
Swimming is also harder with a drysuit. Any undergarments should be specifically designed to be used under a drysuit.


True. Actual swimming with a bag style drysuit is tough to do as there is a lot of fabric. However, there is a small amount of trapped air in the bag suits which will make you boyant and therefore help you stay afloat and safe if you end up with a long swim in. What is more, the new Pyro Surf is a skin tight suit that is very streamlined and has virtually no trapped air in it and is very easy to swim (and paddle) in!

FredBGG wrote:
Just to be on the safe side it's a good idea to use as rounded off fins as possible. You don't want to be tumbling around in a big wave with a "sharp finned" board.


I guess I agree with this too. However, our Pyro Lite, Classic and Pro model suits are made with a super tough 200 denier PU coated nylon. This material is very tough and is unlikely to gash in the event of a fin contact with the suit. The Pyro Surf suit uses different materials, including an ultra durrable Lycra outer layer and a very flexible and accomodating under layer. The most likely time you will tear your suit is on the beach if you snag it on a sharp point of some sort or another (stick, nail, sharp corner of your vehicle, tarp tie down, etc). A fin impact is too spread out to be of much concern.

FredBGG wrote:
Unlike regualr wetsuits maintinance with a drysuit has to be perfect. I'm not a nay sayer, but the risks are there.


Again, not true. I can not speak for our competitors but with a Pyro drysuit you can expect to get 3 to 4 solid seasons of use out of with absolute minimum mantainance. By this I mean that if you keep the suit clean, sand and dirt out of the zipper and if you wax the zipper after every 2nd session (a 2 min. job) the suit will remain in perfect condition. Over time it does make sense to have the suit pressure tested and possibly have the seals replaced. However, even with an old seal that allows some seepage of water you are looking at the inconvience of 1-2" of water in the legs after your 2 hour session, hardly life threatening. Ocean Rodeo offers full product support for all of our drysuits and can patch or replace any faulty or worn out part of our suits.

FredBGG wrote:
Pricy buggers too. You could make a trip to a nice warm place where you can kite but naked for the price of one.


This is a matter of perspective. What I can tell you is that the Pyro Pro has a suggested retail range of $600-$680 USD while the brand new Pyro Surf comes in at $500-$570. Hardly more than a top end wetsuit, and for what its worth, considerably less than I just spent on my last trip to Mexico.

Finally, how about some shameless benifits of a drysuit over a wetsuit...shale we?

- 2nd sessions - no one likes cold and wet wetsuits. 'nuff said.
- Longer sessions - with your core dry and warm you are able to stay on the water longer and spend more energy riding rather than wasting it keeping warm.
- Mobility - its no joke that 4-6mm of rubber is tough to stretch and move...our traditional Pyro line of drysuits feature patented flex pannels to accomodate your movements and our new Pyro Surf is .5mm thick and has virtually no resistance at all when paddling.
- Durability - when was the last time you had a wetsuit last for upwards of 4 seasons with no maintance, were able to then have the suit maintained directly by the manufacturer and reasonably expected to get at least another 2 seasons of use out of it?

http://www.oceanrodeo.com

John Z - OR Sales :evil:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:55 pm 
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dpca10 wrote:
How are you supposto fit the drysuit. I couldn't immagine wearing a fleece under any wetsuit. How much material do you actually need to keep warm?


Great Question!

In the spring we will actually start making available packaged suits that include underware for use, however we are still a couple months away from this. So, what to do now?

The perfect under garments are just like what you would wear snowboarding. Layer up or down for the weather. Generally speaking you always want to be wearing a set of polypropelene long underware. This base layer will wick moisture away from your body and keep you toasty. On top of this you can layer up or down with polar fleece like long underware or clothing. I generally wear fleece pants and a top on top of my long underware.

For the Pyro Surf suit you will need to make sure this layer of fleece is rather form fitting as you would be wise to avoid bunching of fabric under the suit. This is precisely why we have invested the time to develop a line of Pyro suitable underware. However, for now any well fitting fleece will work perfectly with the Pyro Surf, and for that matter the traditional line of Pyro drysuits.

For more information check out Ocean Rodeo.com: now split for kiteboarding and surfing!

Ride Dry. Ride Longer.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:32 pm 
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One final worry I think many will have initially. Have you found any problemns sliding around on your stomach when paddeling a board or catching a wave in the new pyro surf. Surfing requires a lot of balance and subtle movement when catching a wave


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 9:20 pm 
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@Sake: how do you maintain the zipper and rubber of your Mustic drysuit? I've been told to put talc on the rubber, how do you apply hat? And the zipper?
Thanks,
Walter


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:15 pm 
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I am aware of at least 1 fatality involving a rider wearing a drysuit - blown out to sea in sideshore winds that shifted side-off, near sunset during the cold season (November? Connecticut?). Whether or not a wetsuit would have done any better (or worse) is pure speculation - nobody really wears enough thermal protection to spend several hours in cold water, if we did we would overheat during normal riding.

Dry or wet, when temps are low you have to stay close enough to shore to get out if things go bad.


I think the pyro surf looks pretty interesting, I just wonder how long it will last under the friction from a harness.

Drysuit guys - what kind of layers do you need for air temps in the low 50's and water temps in the mid-40's? Anyone wear a shortie (wetsuit) underneath?


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