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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:13 pm 
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:thumb: true. But not always more (in this case jump time) is better as you know, if you'll show this jump to anyone who dosent kite, he wouldn't understand what is the big fuss about. IT JUST DOESN'T LOOK GOOD. if you want to "levitate" buy a parachute. kiteing is about style. IMO!


Last edited by kashi on Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:42 pm 
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Jesse's was a "kiteboarding" jump. Eric's wasn't, in case anybody missed that subtlety.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:35 pm 
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spork wrote:
The Jess-Man wrote:
I'm going to have to disagree that it should only be considered lofting.

Erik Eck is the dude that went up....


I can give you a long list of "jumps" that lasted 10 hours and took the rider over 100 miles. These were done on paragliders. But a paraglider is just a foil kite with a lot of lines. So where do you want to draw the line?

Jessie did an intentional jump from water to water (and landed it I believe). To me that qualifies as the record. I doubt that Eric would consider his mishap a jump.


So true :thumb:

Thats why I love seeing these MASSIVE air time jumps on water for the impressive and unusual feat - eventhough they are still not "true" jumps based on gear and rider technique only - which we will NEVER be able to distinguish anyway...

But a hell of a lot more "true" jumps than anything done on land/snow - as often has been referred to as "incredible" (which I cant see - because as Spork says - up to 10 hours has been done often with PG's and HG'ers...)

Could turn it around:
I know many good ridge lift spots (from HangGliding and ParaGliding) - where you could jump up into the lift zone from the water - and soar "indefinitely" (or as long as you can manage and the wind is there) - and then glide forward and land on the water again !

That would (in my eyes) not count as a "record" jump at all...

Stupid to do - as it would be dangerous doing it as you might fall over land if you break a line before you fly forward longer out over the sea again.

But possible to do, if one was so stupid to play russian roulette that way...

Should that count as a "water" hangtime record then ?
In my eyes not :roll:

Bottom line is still - no matter what the reason is - it is still impressive to watch huge water hangtime 8)

Kindly, Peter Frank


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:55 pm 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
I know many good ridge lift spots (from HangGliding and ParaGliding) - where you could jump up into the lift zone from the water - and soar "indefinitely" (or as long as you can manage and the wind is there) - and then glide forward and land on the water again !


I agree, that should be possible, and would be somewhat different than a hangtime record. But if you developed the right gear (something more like a PG) how cool would it be to transition between kitesurfing and ridge-flying at will during a single session!!! Pop up on the ridge, maybe make your way a couple hundred feet up for a different view of things, skim back down to the water and ride the board for a bit before popping into the ridge lift again.

On the other hand, the risks go both ways. Falling on land is bad, and paragliders in the water (with all their rigging) can lead to drowning (I know of one tragic local case).


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:24 pm 
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spork wrote:
The Jess-Man wrote:
I'm going to have to disagree that it should only be considered lofting.

Erik Eck is the dude that went up....


I can give you a long list of "jumps" that lasted 10 hours and took the rider over 100 miles. These were done on paragliders. But a paraglider is just a foil kite with a lot of lines. So where do you want to draw the line?



Fiar enough, I'll buy into the water to water thing.

I got thinking about it and if you were counting every jump made by some one with a kite you would have to include the snow kiteboarders. Those guys hang for ever.

Jesse Richman #1 Water to Water

Erik Eck #1 Beach Jumper (hopefully this sport doesn't catch on.)

:thumb:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:33 pm 
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spork wrote:
But if you developed the right gear (something more like a PG) how cool would it be to transition between kitesurfing and ridge-flying at will during a single session!!!


I've seen kite ridge soaring video taken at a sand dune along one of the Great Lakes (Michigan?). I don't remember whether they were launching off the water in the video, but I'd be surprised if they don't.

I have a feeling that lots of kiters are going to try to start copying Jesse's technique, probably with occasional extraordinary results. By looping along the back side of rotor turbulence, kiterboarders might be able to sometimes achieve crazy heights and duration.

And that would be a good reason for purpose-built equipment, or at least modified kites, lines and bars that are not prone to failure. Gear failures are most likely to happen during jumps, due to sustained, heavy loading. Leading edge casing and bladder failures shouldn't be overlooked, because lots of current kites crumple when they pop.

Regards,
James


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:17 pm 
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JS wrote:
I've seen kite ridge soaring video taken at a sand dune along one of the Great Lakes (Michigan?). I don't remember whether they were launching off the water in the video, but I'd be surprised if they don't.


If that's the same video I've seen I don't think they jumped off the water into the ridge lift. But I'm certain they could with the right setup. To me Marina Beach here in CA is about the best setup I can think of. Direct on-shore wind with a low soarable ridge. Given a big enough kite (or strong enough wind) it should work.

I agree you'd want to re-think your gear if you decide to try taking up this sport. My biggest concern initially would be pendulating into the ridge (or possibly overshooting it).


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:51 pm 
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The Jess-Man wrote:
Erik Eck #1 Beach Jumper (hopefully this sport doesn't catch on.)

:thumb:



just to make sure..Erik didn't do this on purpose, and although he's a great kiter, he probably one of the last people that would do beach jumping...

a.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:13 am 
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spork wrote:
I don't think they jumped off the water into the ridge lift. But I'm certain they could with the right setup. To me Marina Beach here in CA is about the best setup I can think of. Direct on-shore wind with a low soarable ridge. Given a big enough kite (or strong enough wind) it should work.

There is a catch-22 making this really difficult. Have you ever sunk out to the beach at your CA cliff sites and noticed no wind down there? Steep hills bring the lift band laterally close to the water, but mainly high overhead. The lower areas stagnate. Versus a shallow laminar area like Marina where the lift band is low but set back far from the water, and at a challenging L/D angle (fast horizontal and slow upwards).
Image
Another approach is to brave an offshore Santa Ana lofting such as below, which I think has been done but with brutal splashdowns. The dashed areas show soarable lift. Also, gentle "sea thermals" have been described by glider pilots, but probably not workable down low.
Image


Last edited by daft on Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:37 am 
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JS wrote:
I have a feeling that lots of kiters are going to try to start copying Jesse's technique,
probably with occasional extraordinary results.
By looping along the back side of rotor turbulence,
kiterboarders might be able to sometimes achieve crazy heights and duration.

I agree and Jesse is a good example who showed us it can be done :thumb:

Since march I've already started doing multiple loop sessions on the 10m SB2
when we have the wind for it and noticed after 6 loops the lines are getting really tight to control.
So when I saw the video I give a lot of credit to the rider because I could relate to what he was doing.
In my opinion he was in fully avare and in control of the loops and the power generation of his kite,
while with his source of vigor he was completely capable to neutralize the decending sinking forces (whatever sink rate) probably in a good Lapse Rate
of his and kite-board-weight combo in that favorable condition for that ultimate outburst of time.

Here is a ridge soaring with a 17m Speed (older version)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIn2Wk3hshA

DrLightWind


PS. Spork or any of you, have you thought about launching from the water and to get the extra lift
at Torry Pines or Point Fermin Park at San Pedro where I used to fly hangliders when I used to live in Santa Monica?


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