*


All times are UTC + 1 hour



Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:56 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:13 pm
Posts: 247
Location: France
There is one thing I fail to grasp:

Two years ago, when the first GK Sonic came out, it became clear that you can make a high performance flat kite with a really short bridle and a simple, pulley-less (or 1:1) bar. I have never seen or heard of a Sonic bridle wrapping around the wingtips, even though I use only Sonics since then.

I remember laying on the 11m '06 Sonic a 12m '06 Waroo (quite similar kites ;)) and measuring more than 1m of difference in bridle length (distance of the KPO pulley from the LE). I have heard and witnessed several Waroo wingtip-wraps, usually resulting in looping kites.

Two years passed. Most '08 flat kites have adopted 1:1 bars, but they still mostly have the same long, dangerous bridles than the original Xbow and Nova...

Could somebody explain to me the rationale of wasting bridle lines just to make the kites more dangerous? :?:


Last edited by lezo on Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:15 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:02 pm
Posts: 570
Location: wiSCONsin
I'd venture a guess that the reason the bridles are as long as they are has a lot to do with geometry and angle of pull on the LE. Anchor points that have a pull from less than 45' pull harder and put more stress on the LE than if the angle was more. all of those points have a central focus that puts the connection points out there a bit.

just a guess


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:34 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:13 pm
Posts: 247
Location: France
Ok, but you can quite simply reinforce the bridle attachment points, like on the '07 Sonic or the '08 Vsonic..


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:48 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:36 am
Posts: 8608
Location: Oahu
Lezo, I don't think this is the type of line wrapping we are talking about here. If you bend the wingtip, ANY kite with a bridle can be messed up..simply because it has a bridle. The self launch is very sensitive so people have to make sure the lines are clear...more so than self launching a c kite that way.

When my lines wrapped, I simply pulled the other side from way up on the back line and forced the kite back down that way...I think I should have just released it, but there were a lot of people around.

Self launching in Kailua is under almost no circumstances recommended.

A.


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:02 pm 
Offline
Frequent Poster

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:06 pm
Posts: 218
Wetstuff,

Are you saying you don't self launch the Hypertype any more?

How did you try it?

Ever do the sanded tip?

ust got a Hyper 15 and want to figure it out. Not into "ghost launching" and have never done the chicken loop thing. I have done the sanded tip on Rebels and Rhinos with success. I miss the Vegas days, so easy for me.

Denis[/quote]


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:17 pm 
Offline
Rare Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2004 6:48 pm
Posts: 37
Location: Gulfport , MS
What I do when I need to to self launch and land my TD2's is this. I bought one of those large dog tie downs that looks like a screw. Its about 1.5 feet long and the top has a loop on it. once screwed down into the pack sand this thing holds laterally like its almost in concrete, if you pull straight up though it comes out pretty easy. I attach my chicken loop to this. Even though the tie down seems very secure, I wanted a back up in case it did come free. I just take my airush sand bag and clip my safety to it, so if the kite does come free of the tie down the sandbag trips the safety and the kite falls. I have tested it by launching the kite down wind a bit and when I was able to get the tie down to pull out of the sand, the sand bag killed the kite.

I only do this when I am kiting alone. Also the TD2's sit very nice at the windows edge.


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:20 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 1942
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Someone came up with the suggestion of using two bags, one attached to the loop and another attached to the flagging line. That way if the kite moves further downwind, the first sandbag gets dragged but the kite will just get flagged out.

I just use a wombat anchor these days (fortunately I don't have to launch alone often). It holds 300kg's which is more than I can hold so its pretty safe attaching the kite to it for fixed launches. They're a little expensive compared to a sandbag (AU$60) but at least you know the kite is fixed solidly to a point.


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:26 pm 
Offline
Rare Poster

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:14 am
Posts: 28
Location: Portland, OR
RickI wrote:
Have other folks had wing tips get caught while solo launching "flat kites?"


Hi Rick,

Did you rig your lines from upwind of the kite or downwind of it before this incident? It seems to me that the likelihood of the bridal snagging on a wingtip is lower if you rig the lines downwind of the kite and then walk the bar around and to the side.

When self-launching or landing a kite there's always more risk involved so having a trusted person help you out is obviously the better choice if possible.

I ride Liquid Force Havocs and luckily have never had this problem. I'm guessing certain kites might be more prone to it than others.


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:53 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 8249
Location: Florida
genek wrote:
RickI wrote:
Have other folks had wing tips get caught while solo launching "flat kites?"


Hi Rick,

Did you rig your lines from upwind of the kite or downwind of it before this incident?


I sand the flat kite leading edge pointed into the wind and run the lines back downwind tied to the board. It makes things easier for me to follow, routine is good. I unsand the kite, shift it slightly in the direction I'm going to walk the lines towards. I walk backwards slowly tensioning the lines, once the kite angles on on a wing tip I reverse the direction of pull on the kite and up it goes. I haven't had any problems until that one time recently. That combined with the other accident I referred to and some reasoning will have me seeking competent assisted launches in the future.

What about snagged wingtips following relaunching particularly from the water? How common is that?


Top
Profile
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:07 am 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 1:00 am
Posts: 914
RickI wrote:
Have other folks had wing tips get caught while solo launching "flat kites?"


i have seen it and fortunately it happened to my friend while he was practicing a self launch - i was able to get the kite on the second loop but there was basically nothing he could do

it figure it was my fault as i hadn't cleared the bridle properly when i moved his kite

this was a crossbow and it made us very wary of the problem

it would seem any kite with a vee on the rear attachment can get caught in this spiral

it is not clear to me if the spiral will be caused if the front line gets caught on the tip

kites like the mentioned sonic don't have a vee and this is good

i saw my 9m waroo get caught on the vee by another kiter, but it was in the water and wouldn't relaunch

i know the waroo pro and the bularoo had a very short vee where the rear bridle attached and this vee was too short to warp the rear tip

the slingshot rev is praised for its short bridle but it has a rear vee that could conceivable catch - it also has a working front line release that i hope would get you out of this situation

it is that time of year again for kite manufacturers and take out their cameras and crash test dummies and show us how to get their kite out of these situations

wrap that rear vee or line around the tip and let'er rip - then show the results

David


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], buckjay, ciscokitesurfer, geir, Google [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, herbert, kochease, OBX Kiter, wood1 and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group