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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:31 pm 
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Location: San Francisco!
I had the elbow thing for a few weeks, it was horrible. I was loosing sleep and kiting days, both of which cherish. There is a kiter here (John Tolmosoff) who is a Chiropractor who helped me out. He said that as the throw is getting longer on the bow/hybrid kites, people are hyper extending there arms over and over. A good preventative measure is to be sure that you set your stopper just to the point before you hyper extend. It has worked really well for me. And for immediate relief he reset my elbow and it has been great ever since.

-Brian


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:21 pm 
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Dude! you gotta clean that keyboard., thats disgusting!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:41 am 
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Yep, the keyboard is about 50 million years old so it's covered in crap. i should really get a new one hey.....

Prolotherapy - yeah i wouldn't go there. Research into the effects of needling (either by using a cutting syringe or an acupuncture needle) has shown that the local effects on an active trigger point are the same, regardless of whether you inject saline, corticosteroid, lignocaine, or nothing. Therefore the therapeutic effect is related to the release of the trigger point itself, and comes from mechanical stimulation by the needle.

I know what you mean though, some orthos will inject a noxious substance in the tendinous insertion (NOT the active trigger points) to allow just the type of inflammatory response you're talking about. It's painful, and doesn't always work, but can have good results. I always try the simpler and less painful methods first.

For all you wave riders out there, kiting with one hand and turning the kite is particularly bad for this problem, because of the repeated radial deviation and heavy grip required. Flipping the hand so that it's the "wrong" way up will help a lot, as someone mentioned. I forgot to add that bit in :)

Sticky, mods?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:36 pm 
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n1ckl4s wrote:
I had a cronic kite elbow and I noticed that keeping both thumbs on top of the bar instead of under the bar, the way one usually grips a bar, helped me to get rid of the pain. Of course I had to stop kiting for a long time and switch to a kite with less bar pressure but keeping the thumbs on top of the bar helped me a lot.


Aaah! Yes, good tip. After extensive testing I've concluded that keeping the thumbs above the bar definitely helps...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:26 pm 
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With Prolotherapy they really try to bath the tendons and connective tissue with the irratant usually Sucrose, so they really don't try for pin piont insertions. They will try to put the irratant in capsules, joint space, and along tendions for maxamum coverage, But your right about the needles, that was proven with the study about back pain, needles work even if they are inserted randomly in a effected area.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:01 pm 
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great info thanks a lot!!

You ride a sonic and you STILL got kiter's elbow???


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:18 pm 
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I also have had this problem for a while.
Gave it rest for a while: didn't help
Tried working out more: helped some..

A few days ago i met a fysiotherapist who also did manual therapy and he suggested that 90% of all 'tennis ellbows' originate from the neck.
He tried 'cracking' (i don't know what the english term is..) it and before that my neck was a bit sensitive (which i hadn't even noticed up until then..) but after it was already much more moblie then before.
I have had a few treatments now and it feels alot better.

How do you stand on this philosephy?
Do you agree that this problem comes from the neck 90% of the time?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:57 am 
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I do ride a sonic, but mine didn't develop as a tendonitis as such, i actually had an acute tear, possibly from carrying my extremely heavy suitcase around the day before. For me, it didn't develop slowly as most do, mine came on very suddenly and severely one session, and has eased since. With self-treatment at work, it is now almost totally gone.

Mark: i would NOT agree that 90% of the time it comes from the neck.

There is a school of thought out there that says that chronic (not usually acute) lateral epicondylalgia can result from a neural compression at the C5 or C6 (most common) nerve exit points in the cervical spine. The radial nerve innervates the extensor muscles, and is comprised of branches of C5,C6,C7,C8 and T1 nerve roots.

The resultant radiculopathy results in hypersensitivity, trophic changes and chronic muscle spindle shortening, which often manifests as active trigger points in the muscle. These can certainly lead to local problems at the shoulder, elbow and wrist, as well as altered pain processing mechanisms in the central nervous system (previously non-painful stimuli become painful).

I always assess the cervical spine in patients who have chronic LE, but in an acute case i treat the local problem first. If the problem persists, or does not respond to treatment, or recurs regularly then the cervical spine is something to look at. To date i have not seen a single case that was CAUSED by the cervical spine alone, although i have treated cases where radiculopathy was present and contributing to the problem.

Even if chronic disc space narrowing is causing a neural entrapment and thus the LE, it is very difficult to fix the local problem in the neck. I use manual traction and dry needling techniques to relieve the local muscle spasm next to the spine, but manipulation is risky and doesn't often work well enough for my liking.

I do know some chiropractors who seem to have good results manipulating the cervical spine in these cases, but i would theorise that the actual mechanism of action is that of local neural anaesthesia caused by the manipulation of the facet joint, resulting in less pain signals getting through to the brain. In effect, you're not treating the cause so much as you are blocking the pain from reaching the brain. Anyway, it does seem to work sometimes, so i can't rule it out.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:27 am 
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I had this problem years ago when I started using four line kites.

What I noticed was that when i used two line kites the problem never came up. By using a depowerable kite you constantly put pressure on your arms holding the bar in, the more bar pressure the worse it is. If you are really suffering, try using a fixed loop. The north bars have a micro loop which works great for this, and then you can just pull the depower strap to adjust accordingly to the wind for the day. Thumbs above the bar work well also...but by having a fixed loop you only pull on the bar when you turn the kite...much better. It's a quick fix if you're on vacation and don't want to stop kiting, it puts the depower pressure on your legs which are far more capable of handling the pressure of edging that your elbows of constantly holding in the bar...it works for me everytime! Low bar pressure kites help alot as well.

j


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 Post subject: Re: Kiter's Elbow: A clinician's perspective
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 3:02 am 
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I have issues with my elbow as well and recently found that although I have not been kiteboarding because of the cold weather my elbow has not been getting better, I then went on a trip during Xmas and did a lot of kiteboarding and found that my elbow did not bother me till after I got home and it seemed to be getting worse each day. I finally realized that what is causing my problem now seems to be the fact that I spend a lot of time on the computer and that using the mouse irritates the same area that I had injured kiteboarding. I did some research on the internet and found out that mouse elbow is becoming a very common problem for people that spend a lot of time on the computer, so if you injure your elbow kitting you may want to be really aware of how you are holding your computer mouse and whether the mouse might be agravating your injury and not let it heal. It sounds like a very minor thing but I have tried to use my mouse as little as possible this week and have already noticed an improvement.


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