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Hook Knives...don't bet your life on them!

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tungsten222
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Postby tungsten222 » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:25 pm

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit.
Last edited by tungsten222 on Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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windyway
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Postby windyway » Tue Nov 27, 2007 7:52 pm

The Boeing / DaKine Hook Knife
Project Development Cost Projection


Kitezilla's research- $ tbd
Boeing Project Development- $3.2 million
ANSI, SAE, NASA, and UL testing $2.7 million

Manufacturing cost- $5.61
Wholesale price- $12.90
Kite shop retail price- $25
ParaGlide shop retail price- $168
Chandlery store retail price- $284 (marine supply store)

Sold to US Government $1,362.61 each.

LVRob
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Ceramic Blade

Postby LVRob » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:58 am

Tom,
Cutting lines is around plan D or F for me. But, thoughtful thread, from it I'll buy a new double hook knife from Jeff & coat it in lithium grease before putting it in my Mystic Warrior harness, might save me or someone else some day. Thanks
Kyocera has a link looking for new product ideas, this seems like a good possibility for a ceramic blade.
As for some of these pinheads, it illustrates that the death toll in kiteboarding will continue to mount, natural selection will continue to run it's coarse as it has been, also why you should carry a good knife to prevent them from taking you with them, you can't fix stupid.

https://secure.kyoceraadvancedceramics. ... ts/custom/
Last edited by LVRob on Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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spork
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Postby spork » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:17 am

I looked for ceramic blades for this application a couple years ago. I never had much luck. Frankly I don't remember why. But they do seem like a good solution.

This thread got me to go back and check my knives (long overdue). My hookknife (from hookknife.com), with two blades, was badly rusted. In fact the screws were also rusted to the point that I had to destroy one to open the handle. I went on-line to order new blades just now. The good news: they're $4.00/set. The bad news: minimum order is $25

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daft
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Postby daft » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:45 am

spork wrote:My hookknife (from hookknife.com), with two blades, was badly rusted. In fact the screws were also rusted to the point that I had to destroy one to open the handle. I went on-line to order new blades just now. The good news: they're $4.00/set. The bad news: minimum order is $25

It sounds like you are using that "jack" knife that I reported so much trouble with in http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopi ... torder=asc . Lucky I took the spare blades out of handle before saltwater use - about 3 dunkings and the blade was brown powder. The cheap Zknife on your posted web page may not cut well in lab conditions, but it has survived many dunkings pristinely!

daft wrote:
tomatkins wrote:
daft wrote:Part of the problem may have been it's long water resistant sheath, which can trap water once it is forced in. Stainless steel CAN rust under the right conditions.
Image


Daft,

Thanks for "the rest of the story".... darn, just when you think you have it figured out, a person like you comes at the final judgment with some pesky FACTS. Thanks a lot for bumming out the whole "Jack Knife Mutual Appreciation Club".

Oh, I forgot another problem with water dunking my old Jack - the snap completely froze up, requiring a screwdriver blade to pry it open and remove the knife! It looks like they now use a black snap instead of the bronze looking one I have. In salt water mine developed a light greenish powdery coating like the way copper oxidizes, and welded it. Anyway, for any hook knife that snaps in, check that it will release from time to time.

Edit: the older, cheaper Zknife snap did not freeze!

heffe
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Postby heffe » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:09 am

heffe wrote:http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=6

Expensive @ $50, but priceless if you ever need it (and I *really* like my fingers, plus my own approach is to never quibble when buying safety gear).

I keep mine on the left shoulder of my impact vest (I'm right-handed); quick pull and it's ready to go. I've seen at least two guys lose part of their fingers and one very close call....that was enough for me.

Cheers,
-H :thumb: (icon pun intended)


What you seek exists...it's razor sharp and goes thru Q-line (which I use) pretty impressively.
-H :thumb:

http://www.benchmade.com/products/produ ... px?model=6

http://www.benchmade.com/about_knives/o ... ade_Steels
X15 T.N: This French steel was developed for the aircraft industry for jet ball bearings, as well as the medical industry for scalpels. It has the ability to resist rust in the worst of conditions while maintaining ample edge retention. The capability behind this steel is in the way it is manufactured, resulting in the finest steel for use in harsh environments such as salt water. The edge on an X15 T.N blade is easier to maintain.

Blade Length: 0.50"
Blade Thickness: 0.113"
Blade Material: 6 H20: X15 T.N (Previously H1)
Blade Hardness: 58-60HRC
Blade Style: Hook
Weight: 2.30oz.
Clip: Hard Sheath Metal-Clip (981607); Sold Separately
Lock Mechanism: Fixed
Overall Length: 4.25"
Closed Length: 4.25"
Sheath Material: Molded Delrin Snap-Fit or Nylon Webbing Pouch/ Velcro Closure (6 BLKW)
Class: Black

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spork
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Postby spork » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:14 am

Nope, I have this one.

Image

But it seems to have the same problems you describe.

Now I'm thinking about ceramic blades again. Might check with these folks: http://www.specialtyblades.com/blade_types/ceramic.html

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kitezilla
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Postby kitezilla » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:39 pm

Wow, people...I am overwhelmed ...thank you, thank you, thank you!

I am constantly bragging about the participants on Kiteforum, and this thread shows why! Such passion, compassion, and sleuth work....and could there BEEE a funnier post than the one from Portland?

Anyway, back to work.

LVRob,

Thanks for the investigative work! I never would have thought of taking that approach...going straight to the industry...kudos, my friend!

Here are some pictures (I couldn't figure out any other way to post the form), of my answers to the survey form....I tried to send in the form to Kyocera, using the submit button, but I got an error message. I will try calling them to find out how to submit the form. Meanwhile, I would appreciate some help in filling out the form. Any changes needed here to clarify or add info? It may be that this company will only answer questions from “bricks and mortarâ€Â
Attachments
kf-survey knife p3.JPG
kf-survey knife p3.JPG (117.58 KiB) Viewed 562 times
kf-survey Kyocera p2.JPG
kf-survey Kyocera p2.JPG (118.4 KiB) Viewed 562 times
kf-Kyocera survey p1.JPG
kf-Kyocera survey p1.JPG (118.64 KiB) Viewed 561 times

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spork
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Postby spork » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:14 pm

I just talked to the folks at http://www.specialtyblade.com

It ends up they have ceramic blades that are about the right size for my hookknife. They run $14/blade (two required), and they warned me that they're "incredibly brittle". I couldn't remember why I decided against ceramic some time back, but I suspect this is why.

They also have ceramic coated blades for $2/blade. Unfortunately only the cutting edge is coated and the rest of the blade is not stainless steel (it's regular carbon steel)

LVRob
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Ceramic Buiseness Opportunity

Postby LVRob » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:28 pm

Spork,
Thanks for the info, the incredibly brittle part doesn't sound good. If you give it a go will be very interested in your results, the knife only needs to work once maybe a half dozen times, the critical thing as far as I can see is the salt water corrosion thing. From what I read at Kyocera's site they may have a more robust material as far as brittle goes. It appears they're looking for retailers / OEMs to partner with for new product ideas, seems like a opportunity, who knows if Tom gets their attention they may go eureka & jump on it. I'd pay a premium for a hook knife that won't corrode & become useless. Still not sure I want to carry a bear claw knife, get run through the spin cycle in the surf & have that thing stuck in me.


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