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Designers: Please Offer Shorter Quick Release Loops

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Neight
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Postby Neight » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:06 am

Hi Rip it up,
The part can be adjusted really small and directly connected to your spreader bar. This makes the range extremely large. Maybe a bit too big.
Currently the part isnt sold separately in the USA.

JFB
The bar is a really small diameter and good to use. There is a specially designed solid stainless steel insert with a center hole that is a wedge shape.
The bar is real loose along the depower stroke. The bar also has super soft bar ends to cushion your fingers and low abrasive grip to keep your hands in good condition.

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Postby RipItUp » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:19 am

Peter P you suggested that Airush has smaller loops for their trigger QR system, but I could not find them available to order at http://airushkiteboarding.com. Can you point me in a direction as to where I can purchase smaller loops for the Airush trigger QR?

Noel I am experimenting with a few different brands of bars, but it really makes no difference for what I am asking about. I just want a very short QR loop, preferably a trigger type like Airush, Eclipse, or Slingshot. The one Neight suggested from NewKiteboarding is nice because you can adjust the loop exactly the size you want it to be, and it takes up very little room so you would be able to adjust it so that the bar can come in tight to the body.

Surferazul there are no "wrong" positions to ride in as far as I am concerned. I know you were trying to be helpful, but everyone has their own style and way of riding. I know people like me that like to have the ability to bring the bar in real close to the body, especially for toe-side riding. I also know people who like to ride with the bar real far out away from their body, almost like they are riding a chopper motorcycle with Ape-Hanger bars. There is no "correct" way, there are only different ways to ride and different preferences for the way people like their bars setup. My point to manufacturers is simply include the people who like to ride with the bar close to their body in the equation when designing a trigger release system. It should be able to be adjusted for both extremes.

Neight: Is the whole bar setup available in the USA? If so where can I purchase one and what do they cost?

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surferazul
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Postby surferazul » Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:53 pm

Sorry i totally disagree, and now im only saying what i think, but i know what im saying cause this is what i live for and from. And cause i studied biomechanics in university and is my proffesion.

Yes, there is a "wrong position" of riding. The problem is that this is a young sport and there is nothing scientific writen yet about this issues.

Dont u think there is a wrong "golf swing" position, or "skiing position"?
This is the same. There is a position, were u can maximize control, efortless. This is studied by ergonomics and biomechanics.

A position with the bar too close to the body is "wrong" cause it changes all the effectivenes of muscular structure or a right stance.(no pain in the back, neck etc)
Example, if you pull your bar close to the hips your back is doing some force to keep the bar close, so u are changing the point where the forces balance on your back spine, this also means your legs are forced to be more stiff and straight.
(if u ride with the bar close and bending legs. it will look really uncool and i am shure thats not the right way.)

There is a "right position technique of riding".
The difference between riders reside on style, the technique is the same for every kiter, the style is the personal interpretation of technique.

Its like caligraphy, each of us have ours but the words and letters are the same.

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Postby scklandl » Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:37 pm

but suferA there is a great variance in riding positions during certain manuevers (load and pop e.g. where its critical to have the bar very close to the body to maiximize power) and different folks require different size loops to be able to get it in the right spot given differnces in arm lengths.

adjustable loops are just as critical (if not more so than board lengths)
so manufacturers listen up!!

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Neight
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Postby Neight » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:14 am

Hi Rip it up,
Sent you a PM.

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Postby RipItUp » Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:16 am

Scklandl wrote
but suferA there is a great variance in riding positions during certain maneuvers (load and pop e.g. where its critical to have the bar very close to the body to maximize power) and different folks require different size loops to be able to get it in the right spot given differences in arm lengths.

adjustable loops are just as critical (if not more so than board lengths)
so manufacturers listen up!!
Sckland got the point I was making and said it clearly down and dirty. Thanks for that.


Surferazul wrote
Sorry I totally disagree, and now im only saying what i think, but i know what im saying cause this is what i live for and from. And cause i studied biomechanics in university and is my proffesion.

Yes, there is a "wrong position" of riding. The problem is that this is a young sport and there is nothing scientific writen yet about this issues.

Dont u think there is a wrong "golf swing" position, or "skiing position"?
This is the same. There is a position, were u can maximize control, efortless. This is studied by ergonomics and biomechanics.

A position with the bar too close to the body is "wrong" cause it changes all the effectivenes of muscular structure or a right stance.(no pain in the back, neck etc)
Example, if you pull your bar close to the hips your back is doing some force to keep the bar close, so u are changing the point where the forces balance on your back spine, this also means your legs are forced to be more stiff and straight.
(if u ride with the bar close and bending legs. it will look really uncool and i am shure thats not the right way.)

There is a "right position technique of riding".
The difference between riders reside on style, the technique is the same for every kiter, the style is the personal interpretation of technique.

Its like caligraphy, each of us have ours but the words and letters are the same.
You are missing the point my friend. There is no need to argue your point as I am not in disagreement with the merits of biomechanics and that there are more efficient ways to do almost anything. That is not the point I am making. The point is that you could not possibly know how I ride, what my style is, what size I am, what maneuvers I do, what injuries I have, as well as a million other variables; so to assume that you somehow know I am riding in the "Wrong" position because I want the ability to bring the bar in close to my body is just plain ignorant of all those variables. I want kite manufacturers to realize that there is a need to bring the bar in tight to the body for a lot of people, so please offer that level of adjustability when designing quick releases.

Have you ever ridden toe-side on a wave leaning well away from the kite? It does have the tendency to shorten your arms and bring the bar in tight to your hip as you lean away from the kite. That is only one small tidbit in the whole scheme of variables you have missed.

Even if I were to explain all the variables to you so that you might get a picture of the mechanics involved of why I like the bar in close to me at times it still would not satisfy your approach, because you think there is a right way to do it. The "right way" is only relative to your position and viewpoint. On a very simple level I have been kiting for many many years back in the day of two line kites with no depowering ability at the bar, you just needed to dig in and edge your board to depower the kite a little, which is probably a lot longer than you have been kiting, so I have developed my own style and way that I like to ride. I am not interested in changing the way I ride at this point, even if there was indeed a more efficient way of doing it.

So for me there is no wrong way of doing it. If it works for you to be bio-mechanically in the correct position for your body type and your set of circumstances that is great, have fun! That is what works for you. But to put that out as that is the "correct position" for everyone is just nonsense. I kiteboard for the sheer enjoyment of doing it, and have no interest in competing, conforming to any idea of a certain style, or method of riding. My goal is to enjoy myself and I do that quite well without the need of conforming to a certain position or way of riding. Be at peace that your way works for you, and that you have the passion you do about biomechanics. At sometime you will find out that what works for you doesn't necessarily work for other people because they are different than you.

I would encourage you to make it OK that people do what they do for the reasons they do it, and that your judgment or assessment of why they do it differently than you is not always correct. There is an old saying about not judging a man until you walk a mile in his shoes. That means don't project yourself and your circumstances into a situation you know nothing about.

Tiger Woods may have the perfect biomechanical swing, and it works for his body type, lack of injuries, and circumstances of wanting to be a professional golfer. There are likely less than 1% of the world's population that would fit that model, so to assume his perfect biomechanical swing is the "right" swing for the 99% who find themselves in vastly different circumstances is naive. If there is a "right" position or way to kite, it would be to do it the way that works best for the person involved, and not some imposed idea of how it "should" be done.

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rip

Postby surferazul » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:16 pm

Rip it up, peace!

I do understand u, and i was not talking about your style. Sorry for the missundestood i was talking in third person (at least that is what i thought)
I respect everybody here. This is just an interesting conversation that i would love to have with u in the beach.

This is my passion, and i also kited for long (1998, is the first time i putted my hands on a wipika classic in grand canaria)

Im shure u are right about the toeside point. Im just saying, that i tink u can find the way to kite with normal(bar settings) equipment, and feel confortable.

I want to be a friend, and as i said, this would be an interestin talking if we can meet in a beach somewhere one day.

Tell me where u kite cause i live traveling the world because of kiting since last 6 years (pkra, magazines, working as tester, or pleasure trips by myself)

And maybe we can meet up , kite togheter and exange some points of view
Best regards, Carlos

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Postby BullsShit.com » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:32 pm

I probably get shit for this, but:

How come the chicken loop is not made out of steel wire (with a hose over it, duhh)??

It would make it possible to make it smaller and stiffer. The softer it is, the longer it becomes. And with all the new safety things, it's almost 12 inches (on some)
big loops stretch and bend and twist , small loops not so much but can't unhook, especially with a mystic hook)

I think the kite design makes a big diff as well, like Eclipse, the "throw" is only 10 inch or so, therefore no problem with the QR size etc.
My North had 2x that, and I had to change it out. ( I hated it but sometimes you needed the long ass throw to control the kite = :-( )

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Postby Toby » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:22 pm

North used to have their microloop as iron string with plastic around...it broke every 2 weeks on me...the new one lasts already since 3 months, and it is made like all c-loops, with line and plastic around.

I also need the bar come as close as possible to the body for maximum power (old school, hooked in). This way I have a long depower line, so I can ride in stronger winds with bigger kites. If the c-loop is too long, it takes away depower from me.

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Postby RipItUp » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:28 pm

I also need the bar come as close as possible to the body for maximum power (old school, hooked in). This way I have a long depower line, so I can ride in stronger winds with bigger kites. If the c-loop is too long, it takes away depower from me.
Thanks Toby, yet another reason to offer a short loop for quick releases.

I recently saw this old non-trigger release from SS. http://kitesurfari.stores.yahoo.net/slclrifsh.html

I just wonder how big the D-Ring is on that model and if it would fit over a spreader bar hook easily. I don't like the idea of metal on metal though because I think it would wear the spreader bar hook out in no time at all.


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