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THE "HUGE" TEST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Opinions needed

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surferazul
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THE "HUGE" TEST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Opinions needed

Postby surferazul » Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:04 pm

I think I just had a very good idea that was on my mind for quite a long time.

I was thinking in a HUGE TEST, where the brands send samples of their 2008 equipment to a point in Europe, TARIFA (because weather, conditions, and being in Europe where the market is bigger, and easier for the shippments)

The testers will be real users, with priority to kiteforum members but open to every person that applies to be on it, and is able to come to the spot.
It will be a “publicâ€Â
Last edited by surferazul on Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby smoore » Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:25 pm

sounds like an amazing idea, im hoping to go to tarifa sometime around easter if i can make it...
so when are you thinking of doing this and is it plausible for someone like me to participate? 15 with 2 yrs xp. even if not, id love to hear about it because in normal reviews you dont usually get it in comparison with alot of other kites / boards.

cheers, smoore

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Postby aeberl » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:03 pm

I would start by having all the kites measured by INDEPENDANT people. I am certain that many manufacturers are not disclosing the real sizes and data like projected areas, cord width, aspect ratio, span, weight (including bridles and pulleys) etc. are absolutely unknown.
We could even take it one step further and have the manufacturers disclose moments of inertia, max. and min. angles of attack, camber depth and position relative to the LE., LE diameter, etc.
We should not buy kites from brands that are holding back objective information that allows fair comparisons.
There are ASTM, ISO and DIN standards for measuting just about everything imaginable, and if not, they will come up with a standard in no-time; how much longer are we going to let manufacturers swindle us with "better low end per sqm" and "one kite quiver solutions".
It is evern possible (and relatively inexpensive) to measure pull vs. angle of attack for standarizedd windspeed and plot it on a graph for each available kite size and model. The same can be done for angular velocity (turning speed).
Testing as propposed is a great marketing tool, but produces information so relative that is is only relevant to the testers themselves and has little value for anybody else.

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Postby eldadgold » Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:03 pm

write me down !
i'll happily be one of the testers :lol:

flights included :D

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Postby Larse » Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:09 pm

It's been talked about before in Denmark. And the conclusion was, that it can never be 100% objectiv. It will always be a matter of personal preference.

Lets say, that 60% of the "judges" are riding naish dailay (or some other brand). Then Naish would score higher, than it would if only 10% were riding naish daily. Kitesurfers are the most loyal people on the planet. "Me gear is the best or at least very good", that's what kitesurfers say and feel about their gear.

And, every person like different things. If I like a slow kite with huge depower to just relax and my little freeride moves, then I would score a SS Fuel very low, but the freestyle freak next to me might give it a top score. The same if I loved wave or unhooked riding and so on. It's a matter of personal preference, likes and dislikes. It can never be objective.

I know poeple who has been surfing for 5-6 years and they don't give a damn about trix. They just like riding back and fourth with a couple of jumps here and there. They would hate an agressiv freestyle kite...

A scientific point of veiw:
To eliminate all the small variables (like the ones above), you need to have at least a couple of hundred "judges". That would give a statistical reliable result. Then you can make statistic significant proof with a small enough p-value (complience value, small p-value=good complience). Otherwise the scientific method (contruction of the test) is not reliable.

So if someone could put together a large test with 300-400 judges, it would be great. But I don't think it's possible. Sorry, but that's a fact. From a scientific aprouch. Or else it would be just as valid and reliable as letting the designers rate the gear. The only thing you'll test is which kite is most used within the testgroup.

It's a great idea, but just not possible in reality...

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Postby dibs » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:15 pm

id love to come down, 16 with 2.5 years riding and not affiliated with any brands. sounds like a bit of fun.

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Postby Toby » Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:38 pm

sure, the idea is good, and tests like this have been done with many testivals around the world. e.g. the Kite Show.
You cannot handle so many testers...since for a relevant opinion, you need at least 30 min on a kite. No count in the time you have wind and how many days you have? There goes your max number of testers.

Maybe a Spanish forum should organize a Spanish testival. That also gives feedback.
But if Tarifa, then you will have also many more international people. But again, where is the limit of testers?

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Postby surferazul » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:18 pm

Well u know what?
This is gonna be really difficult, and... is gonna be a pain in the ass to organize...(and in the en nobody is gona be happy)

I was just thinking in something good for everybody, to help.

One more thing is... the winners of the tests will be happy and the looser unhappy.

So in the end it seems that users will have to keep dealing with (mostly) biased test in magazines;

Happy year to all, anyways.

At least the intention and the idea were good, and i think they are still interesting.

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Postby Toby » Thu Jan 10, 2008 12:59 am

why have a winner and why a looser?
People are so different...I think it is important to get feedback of different riders, this doesn't mean there should be a winner or looser!

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Postby surferazul » Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:05 am

U are very right toby, thats how it should be, just info.
I agree. That would be the meaning of it.


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