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MORE Solutions, was How stupid can we be?

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BigR
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Re: One Solution, was How stupid can we be?

Postby BigR » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:08 am

Or don't the rules apply to him as well.......
if I remember, that was back in 1999 or something like that.

There were no rules against waverunners back then ........or kitesurfing in ft lauderdale for the matter.

heck, none of us even thought back in 97' that kitesurfing would get popular to the point of extinction

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Re: One Solution, was How stupid can we be?

Postby waveknave » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:29 am

yep, some have been working a long time to develop that badass 'tude.

"As you sow so shall you reap"

heheh

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jakemoore
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Re: One Solution, was How stupid can we be?

Postby jakemoore » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:10 am

It looks like the Brits have had this sorted out for a long time:

http://www.britishkitesurfingassociatio ... ory/16/35/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think a good first step could be the formation of local clubs where the riders are easily identified i.e. by a rash guard. This give some small amount of incentive for club members to behave in the public eye. And when an incident happens hopefully it involves a non-member. The existance of a club lays groundwork to allow some responsible kiters to keep access when disrespectful kiters ruin the sports reputation. Hopefully then the worst case scenerio is enforced club membership in order to maintain access as in Ainsdale:

http://www.aoskc.com/page.php?2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Behavior like this needs to have consequences for the kiter for example exclusion from the club:

Image

Jake

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Greg7
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Re: How stupid can we be?

Postby Greg7 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:27 am

waveknave wrote:the jetskiers of the boardsport world. :oops:
Unfortunately this quote is 100% correct.

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Re: One Solution, was How stupid can we be?

Postby apwa06 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:57 am

Neils' ideas arn't bad but way too "finger pointing", nobody's perfect, everyone makes stupid decisions sometimes, including Neil aparently.

We can't go banning others form kiteboarding using set rules, everybody and every situation is different. Rider skills, weather conditions, and location should to be taken into consideration.

I think "kiteboarding/public safety" cannot be well defined by rules, however it can be determined and regulated through experienced judgment.

A few years back, i kited in "L'almanarre France", and there was a specific "kiteboarding lifeguard" there to implement the local rules + regulate the safety of the kiting environment. He also launched and caught people's kites. It was a perfect system.

Now the big question is: Who would pay these lifeguards where ever they're needed since the cities in the US would rather abolish than throw away money into a "useless/non-profitable sport"?

The only answer i can think of is: Guys like "Neil". He cares enough about "safety" and he's ready to sacrifice his sales for it. I'm sure if he payed some guy 10$ an hour on windy days, he would save more money than if he stoped selling kites to random people.

This solution may not be the best idea but at least it is a start.

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RickI
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Re: One Solution, was How stupid can we be?

Postby RickI » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:01 am

Amazing indifference, bans here we come. Bans aren't an abstract theory, they're a reality which unless you actively work to avoid them may steal your options and freedoms away. Wait until you actually lose a critical amount of access in your area, this will seem far more critical that it seems to now.

Let's take a short break from trashing Neil and have a look at some of what he has done for the sport over the years. I first met Neil in 1999, along with Kris Kjos, they started the first kitesurfing school that I had encountered in Florida. The Ft. Lauderdale designated launch that he manages has been a model for other launches all over. In 2001 he was one of the three guys that kited from Key West to Cuba. He was teabagged in high wind and seas for a good portion of 8 1/2 hrs along the 88 mile world record run.

Neil has been pivotal in organizing and often judging/announcing at more kiteboarding events (dozens?) than I can recall not only in Florida but in other parts of the USA. This includes a number of pure charity causes such as the recent KB4C in the NW and the Claudio Silva fundraiser a couple of years back. In a given season Neil might help organize/judge or announce in several competitions. People look forward to his excellent commentating and ask for his help routinely. I am surprised that folks that have asked for his help and received it over the years haven't spoken up to this point.

He single handedly introduced and promoted bordercross kiteboarding to my knowledge in the USA. He organized several unique events, including the Ft. Lauderdale to Bimini Race, the last two 60 mile races from Jupiter to Ft. Lauderdale, these are events of legend and on and on. There is more stuff that has slipped my mind or that I never knew about in the first place. As far as I know he has received no profit or even cash in many cases for these events and actions over all these years. In fact he puts a lot on the line in terms of liability and potential personal loss just by working so tirelessly to create this excellent events. Why? Because he has a passion for it and is a true ambassador for our sport.

Did he tow up six or seven years ago and have an accident? Sure did and he'll be the first to tell you it was a mistake. He didn't leave it there, he went out of his way to fill me in on details so that I could writeup an after action analysis to help others from making the same mistake. I can count the number of pro riders that brought their stories to me of accidents with a desire to help others avoid repetition on perhaps one hand in all these years.

How many of these critics have done a fraction as much? More importantly, aside from throwing trash at a good man, what are you going to do to try to maintain your access? Nothing, lots are already doing that, they don't need more help in that.

Think about it.
Last edited by RickI on Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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RickI
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Re: One Solution, was How stupid can we be?

Postby RickI » Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:19 am

Regarding "pimping" defined as " procuring a prostitute for customers or vice versa, sharing the profits of the woman's activities. Supposedly he provides protection for the prostitutes, but quite often he will threaten, brutalize, rape, cheat and induce drug addiction of his women. A pimp commits the crime of pandering."

I don't use the term myself, except as defined above. Not sure why anyone would want to adopt it to describe any endorsement or promotion.

So, let's get rid of promoting kiting and any information about launch areas. That is the idea, right? First, you need to close this site, better than half the posts deal with questions and information about travel, spots, cautions, gear, transfers, etc.. So, gone. Kitebeaches, way too much information, lets trash that too. Doesn't end there, get rid of all the kiting magazines and videos for the same reasons. Manufacturers need to promote product for sales, so lets get rid of them too.

What is left? No kiters that is for sure, nor kite problems. I guess it might work after all.

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Re: One Solution, was How stupid can we be?

Postby BigR » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:54 pm

Rick wrote
So, let's get rid of promoting kiting and any information about launch areas. That is the idea, right? First, you need to close this site, better than half the posts deal with questions and information about travel, spots, cautions, gear, transfers, etc.. So, gone. Kitebeaches, way too much information, lets trash that too. Doesn't end there, get rid of all the kiting magazines and videos for the same reasons. Manufacturers need to promote product for sales, so lets get rid of them too.

What is left? No kiters that is for sure, nor kite problems. I guess it might work after all.
Fo is just trolling. pay no mind. He would like this to happen, but you could just as easily de-popularize Surfing, it ain't gonna happen.

I think it is time for punishment, however harsh people think it may be, to begin. Start pointing the finger at the person who is behaving inappropriately. They may or may not log onto their local forum,
but you can be sure that they have friends and manufacturers that do. Word gets around.

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Re: One Solution, was How stupid can we be?

Postby Dan Glyaire » Thu Feb 14, 2008 2:30 pm

rick, good luck trying to fix it. just seems inevitable now for closings. too bad, its been great fun. but lets face it, it seems the industry has become a victim of theyre own success.
hard to have so many into the sport and still expect to retain access. and theres always, in any sport, a certain percentage of jackasses, especially a sport like this, why are we suprised?. its just that in kiting its so high profile they stick out, and cause problems and unfortunately most of us have to rely on public access and really who are they going to cater to, us or them.
hope its not over, but its near the breaking point im afraid.
maybe back to windsurfing.

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Re: One Solution, was How stupid can we be?

Postby Juwanna Kite » Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:36 pm

I too am concerned about losing access to my favorite spots. We've been fortunate so far in that our favorite spots don't have swimmers. However the spots do have surfers and a couple of times they've threatened a petition to have us banned because some knucklehead has gone kiting through the pack.

I'm really surprised by the lack of feedback, other than Neil, of industry types here as they have the most to lose through bans (decrease in revenues). Are you guys just resigned to a decline in the sport? How about it guys, what are you thoughts?

Juwanna Kite-


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