*


All times are UTC + 1 hour



Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 15 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: De-flagging the flag = Injured Finger + Picture
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:05 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 4:58 pm
Posts: 1248
Here is a picture of the partially healed "de-gloved" finger injury, and a copy of the email I received, last week, from my friend, describing the incident::

“I just got back from town where I took a fellow kiter to get his
partial de-gloving injury of his index sutured. He was JKA (just
kiting along) when one of his steering lines broke near the bar. He
released the bar flagging the kite on the other steering line, so
far, so good. He then went up the kite leash and up the flagged
steering line to the bar just like they advise. Now he has the bar
with the wrapped up flagging line, and he begins to wrap the other
lines, meaning the two power lines that are attached to the kite.
But the broken line is swirling around, and he grabs it at around the
middle and includes it in his wrap. He now has two steering lines of
approximately the same length thereby removing the safety of the
flag. The kite proceeds to relaunch and loop which de-gloved the
lateral aspect of his index finger which was caught by the lines. I
think if he had begun wrapping the broken line at the end that had
been attached to the bar, or better to ignore the swirling line, that
he could have wrapped the power lines with safety. Fortunately, he
ditched the kite, and a fellow kiter dragged him to the beach. I
hope this analysis will help others to avoid the trap of de-flagging
the flag when doing a self rescue.

Having safe self-rescue technique is important to us all.
Unfortunately, the definition of safe doesn't mean rote and requires
flexibility as conditions change. In this case "better" (neater
lines), was the enemy of the "good" (a flagged kite).”


The following recent thread discusses issues involved with different self-rescue techniques:

http://forum.bestkiteboarding.com/viewt ... fa00ae6bd6


Attachments:
P1080248.jpg
P1080248.jpg [ 77.29 KIB | Viewed 2389 times ]
{ SHARE_ON_FACEBOOK } { SHARE_ON_DIGG } { SHARE_ON_MYSPACE } { SHARE_ON_DELICIOUS }
Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: De-flagging the flag = Injured Finger + Picture
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:34 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 912
Location: Roosevelt Island, New York City
Gotta be careful with those lines! One of our locals lost a pinkie a few years ago when he was relaunching. The line somehow got wrapped around his pinkie and the kite powered up.

When self-rescuing the rule is to wrap the flagging line first... and when you think you've wrapped enough, wrap several more times. Only then do you start wrapping the other lines - that way you can be sure the kite will remain flagged.

Another good rule is to never grab lines (if they're attached to the kite, even if it's down on the beach) with your thumb around them. Keep thumbs on top - on the same side of the lines as your fingers, just in case.


Top
ProfileE-mail
 Post subject: Re: De-flagging the flag = Injured Finger + Picture
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:55 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 1:00 am
Posts: 2581
Location: Retailer/distributor
OUCH!!

Yeah the only way is to wrap the flagged line onto the bar a couple of dozen times first.
Wrap using the bar as a lever to take all the load on the flagged line, and the other lines when you eventually start wrapping them, using the hands only as guided for the line.
It requires practice on the beach and even better a couple of times in the water, the bar is used as the lever and the line is wrapped in an end over end fashion.

Self rescue is not about neat, of figure 8ing the lines, its about flagging the kite to keep it depower and then wrapping up the lines and pulling yourself to the kite and not leaving the lines trailing behind to create a potentially dangerous snag later.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: De-flagging the flag = Injured Finger + Picture
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:24 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:05 pm
Posts: 696
what works for me is:

1. Flag the kite (the flagged line is attached to your leash)
2. Attach the other end of the leash to your board (handle etc)
3. Swim towards the kite through the flagged line and let the board/bar/3 other lines drift away from you (watch the current, wind etc to make sure it goes away from you)
4. Grap the kite and selfrescue (take 1 or both ends of the LE and get some wind in the kite)
5. When on the beach, secure the kite
6. Get your board/bar/line

OK you will loose ground and get your lines messed up but your fingers will be OK

Frank


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: De-flagging the flag = Injured Finger + Picture
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:01 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:16 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Reggio Calabria - Italy
@ Frankieboy:

That's is dangerous. I suggest to follow a perfect description of kitepower (steve).
The additional note: wrap the leashed-line (at the start) not a "fixed" number of times around the bar, but use your mind to calculate *HOW MUCH* do you need to wrap.
You need to push on your bar just a little more than a kitespan lenght of the leashed line.
You have to consider the lenght of your current bar to approximate...
If you have 12m and a kite span of 7m (x esemple) and a bar 45cm you have to calculate:

45x2 = 90cm, 7m/90cm = 8 times (8 figure) on the bar. It's better to exceed 1-2m (so add another 2 times "8figure" and after continue with all the other lines together.
Note to keep ALL the lines together. If you notice that a line was not catched, unwrap the lines, gently, until you pair all lines and start again.

A suggestion is also to take a IKO lesson about it, simply and easy to learn compared to try to read on forum or web that exential part of competence.
Safety is not a joke, IMHO.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: De-flagging the flag = Injured Finger + Picture
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:11 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 9:05 pm
Posts: 696
AlGOr wrote:
@ Frankieboy:

That's is dangerous.



I learned this 5 years ago so maybe another methid is safer.
According to me, if something goes wrong, you just let everything go while being out of the lines. And the kite will not fly away on other kiters for instance because it is attached to the board.

So why is it dangerous?

Frank


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: De-flagging the flag = Injured Finger + Picture
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:20 pm 
Offline
Very Frequent Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:30 pm
Posts: 703
Location: Traverse City, MI usa
Thats one reason I wear dingy racing gloves, save my hands more than once. plus the thumb and for-finger ends are open for undoing lines etc.


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: De-flagging the flag = Injured Finger + Picture
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:21 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:16 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Reggio Calabria - Italy
Frankieboy wrote:
AlGOr wrote:
@ Frankieboy:

That's is dangerous.



I learned this 5 years ago so maybe another methid is safer.
According to me, if something goes wrong, you just let everything go while being out of the lines. And the kite will not fly away on other kiters for instance because it is attached to the board.

So why is it dangerous?

Frank


X exemple, but not only:

1) if you leave all, even if you are "out" the lines, if wind increases 35+kts the kite can dragged out, with all your gears... and you alone in the middle of ocean... :angryfire:

2) if a crazy kite, with a board attached (more), catch another user... uncontrolled can be mortal. :nono:

3) if the current is opposite you cannot keep the other lines far from you easily... :roll:

4) if the kite (a 12m x exemple) pull or looping on the water, on 1 line, and the wind increase in the middle of procedure (30+kts)... it pull a lot... and if you leave x 1-2 sec and instinctively you re-grab a line, with or without gloves... you will have a finger in less... :nono:

5) you have to manage 100meter of lines all around you when you (hypothetically without problem) are on the kite going to the land... :!:

It's enought?
:wink:


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: De-flagging the flag = Injured Finger + Picture
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:23 pm 
Offline
Medium Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:16 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Reggio Calabria - Italy
bay surfer wrote:
Thats one reason I wear dingy racing gloves, save my hands more than once. plus the thumb and for-finger ends are open for undoing lines etc.


Can be usefull, but it may not solve...
What kind of gloves you refer?


Top
Profile
 Post subject: Re: De-flagging the flag = Injured Finger + Picture
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:38 pm 
Offline
Rare Poster
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:04 am
Posts: 31
Location: Valdez, Alaska
I think I saw that whole event unfold in La Ventana last week. If it was the same guy I am thinking of, he was out pretty far when he ditched the kite, and was set up for a really long swim to shore while bleeding profusely. Myself and another guy worked on getting his kite to shore, and out of the way of all the other riders (a hazard in itself) while an instructor from the kite school went for the bleeding swimmer and towed him to shore. It would have been a very long swim had the instructor not seen the guy in the water way out there.
I was impressed to see everybody come together to help this guy out. I am also glad to see that he didn't lose his finger altogether. It looked pretty bad out in the water.

If this is not the same incident, then this is more common than I thought.

Be safe out there, everybody.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic
 [ 15 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Diego K, Google [Bot], jedi1, Kiteosphere, Yahoo [Bot] and 25 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group