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WHAT WENT WRONG? Ft. Lauderdale Lofting Summary

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afflatus
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Re: WHAT WENT WRONG? Ft. Lauderdale Lofting Summary

Postby afflatus » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:04 pm

Nice to see the new guy back to his former form...
(the old new guy was really creeping me out)


and that things are coming so nicely into focus...

So were does all this leave us?

I remember, I was suggesting Tom from California's ol' saw "keep it low and go' is nothing but a suggestion to launch and leave the beach with due care, and expediency...

the prevailing informed opinion of just what a low kite is??

varies from

"anything that's not at the top of the window"

to

"not so low that it compromises either your footing or your kite's stability"....

If Mr.Weather awareness would like to put finer point on it? I really think now is the time.

The way I look at the other side of this "keep it low" coin, is with a great deal of skepticism...

in my opinion (I'm entitled to one right?) it's a solution in search of a problem.

I've never seen a kiter walk to or from the water with a kite below 45 degrees from straight up, and to be clear the sweet spot for walking with your kite in clean air is just a bit higher than that...

Now, that waif of a girl pictured getting lifted up there would be just as yanked with her kite low (as so far defined) in traveling mode, as apposed to what she appears to be doing, looking at the kite floating around up there and not moving...

Apply the low and go rule, and you see the clear violation.

still would be yanked but probably would not be on the sand....

low and go has a purpose, it forbids loitering with a kite up.

Now as a practical matter I can find no other benefit from tom's ol' saw.

examples:

See Marina's post, the dude who flew the current record distance had a super low kite.

her post...
For the record, the French guy in Cabarete was bringing his kite down for a friend to catch when the 50 knot gust came and sent him for a ride. It was inches from his friend's hands. A 50 knot 3-hour sand storm ensued afterward. It had nothing to do with him over steering.
end.

It wasn't over steering, it wasn't that it was a (as defined) high kite, certainly not.

It was because a low kite is no defense against high wind when you are on land.

Useful in the deep? to a point I guess, but clearly not on land.

So, that's where we are at now.

I'm tired of typing, so. cut to the chase:

Low and go has no practical application as regards dealing with dangerously high winds on land.

It's a trap that finds one either flying through the air, or skidding along holding on for dear life to maximally loaded kite.

Keep it low and go is an unfortunately worded catch phrase that one day may find Toby skidding along, picking up speed, fighting to stay on his ass--- and holding on for dear life to a maximally loaded kite,

wondering why the fuck didn't I pull it while I had the chance?

That's the trouble with this unfortunately worded catch phrase, it enables the poorest choice of all.

I'm going to wait and see what happens, then I'll just pull it.

fo-kite-n
Last edited by afflatus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: WHAT WENT WRONG? Ft. Lauderdale Lofting Summary

Postby Windrider » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:11 pm

Toby wrote:if 50 or 70 gusts...who cares? It was a gust or continuous increasing wind...too strong.
....
And stop this BS about Rick's hands on the bar. He is riding, not launching and landing! This doesn't give you any credit for constructional criticism.
I totally agree with Toby on this one. E'nuff with the "hands on the ends of the bar" crap. Look at Toby's pic, he doesn't even hold the friggin' bar!

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Re: WHAT WENT WRONG? Ft. Lauderdale Lofting Summary

Postby afflatus » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:17 pm

Roll models....

Got-a love kiting if only for our roll models...

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Re: WHAT WENT WRONG? Ft. Lauderdale Lofting Summary

Postby Windrider » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:23 pm

... and look at Afflat's icon... it's a bloom'in cat in a uniform! That's on par with Micheal Jackson's chimp in a chump suit. F'chrissakes, you can't judge a person by their avatar.

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Re: WHAT WENT WRONG? Ft. Lauderdale Lofting Summary

Postby afflatus » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:31 pm

no quotes yet,,,

I'll stand or fall on my words alone please...

but I do enjoy being your post subject as well---good or even ill intended.

a flattery nonetheless

right-on

rock on with your thinking caps on

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Re: WHAT WENT WRONG? Ft. Lauderdale Lofting Summary

Postby Richard » Fri Sep 05, 2008 9:56 pm

And I just found out that some of my friends were out in Atlantic Beach, NC doing a downwinder in onshore conditions and racing an approaching squall to their destination. Everyone made it except one guy. He was pulled up on beach, but managed to flag out his kite.

Squall was associated with Tropical Storm Hanna.

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Re: WHAT WENT WRONG? Ft. Lauderdale Lofting Summary

Postby RickI » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:14 pm

Richard wrote:And I just found out that some of my friends were out in Atlantic Beach, NC doing a downwinder in onshore conditions and racing an approaching squall to their destination. Everyone made it except one guy. He was pulled up on beach, but managed to flag out his kite.

Squall was associated with Tropical Storm Hanna.
Glad he made it through OK. Not everyone pulls it off that well. What time was this btw?

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Re: WHAT WENT WRONG? Ft. Lauderdale Lofting Summary

Postby Richard » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:29 pm

Around 2pm today.

All kiters were experienced.

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Re: WHAT WENT WRONG? Ft. Lauderdale Lofting Summary

Postby RickI » Fri Sep 05, 2008 10:55 pm

Richard wrote:Around 2pm today.

All kiters were experienced.

Thanks, lets go through a quick exercise for earlier TODAY, not tomorrow as it looks to hazardous to me. First the sat. image, you might find something better for your area with closer resolution:

Image


Then the forecast:

AMZ158-052015-
S OF CAPE LOOKOUT TO N OF SURF CITY NC OUT 20 NM-
1215 PM EDT FRI SEP 5 2008

TROPICAL STORM WARNING IN EFFECT
HURRICANE WATCH IN EFFECT


REST OF TODAY
TROPICAL STORM CONDITIONS EXPECTED WITH HURRICANE
CONDITIONS POSSIBLE. E WINDS 20 TO 25 KT INCREASING TO 30 TO 35 KT
WITH GUSTS TO AROUND 50 KT. SEAS 9 TO 12 FT DOMINANT PERIOD 11
SECONDS. SHOWERS WITH ISOLATED TSTMS.

TONIGHT
TROPICAL STORM CONDITIONS EXPECTED WITH HURRICANE
CONDITIONS POSSIBLE. E WINDS 35 TO 40 KT...BECOMING SE 40 TO 50 KT
AFTER MIDNIGHT WITH GUSTS UP TO 65 KT. SEAS 13 TO 16 FT DOMINANT
PERIOD 11 SECONDS. SHOWERS WITH ISOLATED TSTMS.

SAT
TROPICAL STORM CONDITIONS EXPECTED WITH HURRICANE CONDITIONS
POSSIBLE. SW WINDS 35 TO 45 KT WITH GUSTS UP TO 65
KT...DECREASING TO 55 KT IN THE AFTERNOON. SEAS 14 TO 17 FT.
SHOWERS WITH ISOLATED TSTMS IN THE MORNING...THEN A CHANCE OF
SHOWERS IN THE AFTERNOON.
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/zone/east/mhxmz.htm

Next, check the local realtime wind, see below. I would check a bunch of these up and down weather of your riding area. If the wind was spiking out of squalls, best to stay in. If the forecast gusts are in the squalls, make doubly sure to stay well away from them!

If the holes were large enough for a few hours minimum and it looked rideable between for your skill level, maybe it would have been feasible to have a go. Tomorrow looks like no go to me from the sustained winds and gusts forecast. Lots of powerful squalls in there as well no doubt. Guys may well go but some might be mauled, laid up for months or even killed. The media will no doubt attend the misadventure with glee.

Next, let's look at the radar around that time (see below).

You can see a couple of feeder bands sweep in. Those are the things you want your kite on the ground, very well anchored, lines off and ideally rolled up before the squall comes close. The gap between the feeder bands is a "hole." Is the hole large enough to allow kiteboarding? I prefer a several hour hole, minimum otherwise I blow off riding. To answer that you need to guess at how fast the bands are moving, you can estimate that from the radar loop;

http://tinyurl.com/zp4fp

It may have been moving too fast, I have no idea at this point it's too late. At only an hour apart though, it looks like the hole in this case was TOO SMALL. Then you need to see how clear the clear area is of small fragmented squalls. Something the size of a pinhead can wreck your day so be careful not to discount them. In this case there seems to have been a lot of fragments floating around.

If it looks like you can get out for long enough and get in from CURRENT (things change!) indications (SEVERAL hours minimum) and you're prepared to Emergency Depower soonest even if it means a swim, your skills are up for it, you may decide to have a go. Keep your eyes open for weather moving in and be sure to beat it to shore and secure before any change in temperature, wind speed, direction, etc. If you screw up and can't make it, Emergency Depower right away. Some areas are closed out while other areas may have higher winds with no squalls or unstable winds. Some guys may have rideable winds at sometimes and not at other times.

Best course isn't to go out at all in tropical or still powerful former tropical systems but if you are dying to go, have required skill and experience (and don't mind dying if you screw up badly, odds are up right?), you might have at it. Safety gear can help with everything from self rescue, to mild bonks to signaling for help if need be btw. If you are careful this can substantially improve things, if you're careless the opposite applies, don't go. If you can't be bothered to try to do effective weather planning and monitoring, DO NOT go out in areas influenced by tropical systems. Going unaware places you on par with lowing cattle in the field, oblivious to incoming lightning, munching cud and contemplating global warming, mooo ?

FKA, Inc.

transcribed by:
Rick Iossi
Attachments
newgraph nc 2.gif
Ocracoke
http://www.ikitesurf.com/
Some wind stations show gust spikes more readily than others, all subject to error in any case.
newgraph nc 2.gif (16.71 KiB) Viewed 1547 times
20080905_155722_black.png
Radar around 11 am, archive image
20080905_155722_black.png (93.79 KiB) Viewed 1554 times
20080905_165710_black.png
Radar around 12 am, archive image
20080905_165710_black.png (107.41 KiB) Viewed 1554 times

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Re: WHAT WENT WRONG? Ft. Lauderdale Lofting Summary

Postby RickI » Fri Sep 05, 2008 11:58 pm

I used this last weekend in SE Florida for a few sessions and never even saw a squall much less had to boot in to avoid one. Some guys monitor radar at the launch and have an effective "all in" signal to bring riders in before wx hazards arrive. A number of other areas in Florida were getting slammed at the same time and weren't rideable in my opinion. That is how it goes, sometimes there are useable holes and sometimes not.. Been using similar approaches for many years with reasonable results. Other times, like around Kevin's accident, it wasn't on for realistic kiting, it was that simple. Restraint in all things, if conditions don't look good for your skill level or aren't sufficiently free of weather hazards, don't go.


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