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 Post subject: Wingtip Pulley Mod - Wingtip Batton?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:45 pm 
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Location: Perth, Australia
Hey Guys,

The pulley mounted on the wingtip of a Hybrid kite usually connecting the backlines to the front bridle I think is used to stabilize the middle of the wingtip.

1. Does the pulley increase the bar pressure?
2. If I removed the interconnecting line and replaced it with a small wingtip baton will it lighten the bar pressure without affecting the turning of the kite.
3. If the backlines are moved forwards (with the wingtip baton still installed), will the bar pressure be improved without affecting the turning of the kite.

I know every kite is different but the principles must still be the same. I want to reduce the bar pressure of my kite so that I can avoid tendinitis by mid season as last season I had to reduce my kiting time down to about an hour at a time. There is a predominant wind that blow here making my left arm the arm that I use the most plus less bar pressure less fatigue.

Cheers
Rich :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Wingtip Pulley Mod - Wingtip Batton?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 2:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:58 pm
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Location: Tarifa / Got 2 Ovandos and a Ripper
Hard to help you if I dont see any pictures ....

Modern bridle kites ( with multiple attachment points around the LE ) are NOT so easy to modify cause moving / shortening / extending any of these lines requires to adjust the rest of them

But as a hint :

1) Back lines or steering lines are for .... Guess what : steering so , if your kite has a bridle , means that the pull or pressure is where the center of the pigtail is placed .... If you move it forwards , your kite will turn slower , move it backwards and it should turn faster .

2) Front lines are responsible for bar pressure and de-power abilities , if you have too much bar pressure ( Ion 2 ? ) is cause the front lines attachments are to high , but I guess you have lots of de-power ? .

I´m not an expert regarding aerodynamics so can´t explain the proper definitions but Imho it has to do with the angle of attack of the kite ....

Before you start fussing around and make ( for sure ) a mess with your bridle , you better take some pics , make a diagram and write down ALL measurements so you can go back to stock if shit happens ...

Some folks have been experimenting with 5th lines on SLE´s / Bows around with excellent results since the 5th line is the best stabilization you can find to keep the arc in place .... then you can eliminate all pulleys ...

Going back to your original question , to decrease the bar pressure ( means your kite is a 100% front line flyer ) you need to lower the front lines pivot angle ? dont know how to explain it ... but I hope you get the message ..... but forget adding extensions ....

Saludos


Franz

Ps. Forget about the battens


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 Post subject: Re: Wingtip Pulley Mod - Wingtip Batton?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:07 pm 
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Location: Perth, Australia
Cheers Panchito,

Here's a pic to help.

Attachment:
wingtip_pulley.JPG
wingtip_pulley.JPG [ 8.78 KIB | Viewed 1552 times ]


Cheers
Rich :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Wingtip Pulley Mod - Wingtip Batton?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:09 pm 
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Location: Long Island NY, OBX Eclipse Kiteboarding
bar pressure is more due to pulley location and bridal design. The batten wont really help.

The more leverage you have on the pulley the higher the bar pressure will be.


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 Post subject: Re: Wingtip Pulley Mod - Wingtip Batton?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:43 pm 
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Location: shallow sea
richswing wrote:
I know every kite is different but the principles must still be the same. I want to reduce the bar pressure of my kite so that I can avoid tendinitis by mid season as last season I had to reduce my kiting time down to about an hour at a time.


hi rich
loose the cross-bridles and modify rest of bridles. i did it on my '07 airush flow 14m. before modification bridles were just like on your picture and bar pressure was huge. now this bird is main lightwind kite with bar pressure just enough for feedback, turning ability stays the same but now its much easier.


winds


Attachments:
File comment: front lies connected to v-line through the pulley. wing tip pulley is used for v-line connection to the le
f2a.jpg
f2a.jpg [ 35.72 KIB | Viewed 790 times ]
f2.jpg
f2.jpg [ 28.32 KIB | Viewed 789 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Wingtip Pulley Mod - Wingtip Batton?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:45 am
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Location: Perth, Australia
Hi Eree,

Let me get this right, you removed the line that connects the back line to the front bridle that runs through the pulley, and then (I can't see much else that you have modified on the front bridle)???

If you have more detailed pics would be appreciated.

I thought of another option: get a longer bar and reduce the interconnecting pulley line length. This will reduce the leverage but hopefully the longer bar will make up for the reduced turn-abiltiy.

Cheers
Rich :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Wingtip Pulley Mod - Wingtip Batton?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:45 am
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Location: Perth, Australia
Hi Eree,

In the pic, did you basically remove the green/blue section and then shortened blue and connected it to were the pulley is/was?

Attachment:
f2a1.JPG
f2a1.JPG [ 40.67 KIB | Viewed 790 times ]


Cheers
Rich :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Wingtip Pulley Mod - Wingtip Batton?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 3:31 pm
Posts: 106
Location: South Padre Island, TX
Adjusting bar pressure is simple. To reduce bar pressure, you must move the tow point back toward the trailing edge. The easiest way to do this is to shorten the outer most lines on the front bridle (the one that goes from the leading edge to the "arch" line). I suggest starting with about 2cm. You can experiment with this easily by tying a clove hitch around a small piece of plastic tubing (or a stick you find on the beach). Use a clove hitch so that you don't have to detatch the bridle line. Make sure and do it to each side equally. Try different diameter sticks until you get it perfect, then you can make a new line the right length. Very easy.

Don't take it too far or your kite won't depower.

Your kite will still have the same arch. Arch bridles are brilliant in that they sort of self-adjust to small changes in length to one line.

To do the opposite (increase bar pressure), just add a small extension to this same line.

Alan


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 Post subject: Re: Wingtip Pulley Mod - Wingtip Batton?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:45 am
Posts: 234
Location: Perth, Australia
Hi Alan,

Is this the correct bridle line highlighted in BLUE, if so I have been playing with the line length to the extent of shortening it by up to 8cm. I have picked up a slight change in bar pressure. I think if you go to short it will reduce the bottom end range of the kite by making it more C shape???

Attachment:
wingtip_pulley.JPG
wingtip_pulley.JPG [ 9.49 KIB | Viewed 1219 times ]


Cheers
Rich :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: Wingtip Pulley Mod - Wingtip Batton?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:58 pm
Posts: 2704
Location: Tarifa / Got 2 Ovandos and a Ripper
Without knowing which kite / brand / model you have , we can only guess . Your drawing dosent help much .

If your kite has a rounded wingtip you can´t go with a single steering line as on the pic , the Airush is a V shape ala delta shape and a single line can work very good , but if the tip is ala Waroo for example a single line wont work specially if there is no attachment around the centre .

Each kite ( even between same brand models ) got a different bridle set up so, what it may work on a A kite may not work on a B kite .
:idea:

Saludos

Franz


Last edited by panchito on Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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