Lies, Damn Lies, by RAM lovers

[kenny KAF]

Actually, I do not see and understand why foils are so critisized. Nearlly every week I can read a report on a forum saying "I experience this problem with my brand new tube", "how to repair this or that..."...

Recent post on KF:

I bought my 9m '09 rebel a few weeks ago and when I took in out for its virgin flight in 30kts it kept on collapsing/folding. I'm a 90Kg rider with the struts pumped up to the recommended 6psi. It kept collapsing approx every 30 secs - it got so bad I packed it away and ended my session.

A week later I was out in 25kts with the 9m kite pumped up to 8psi. The kite flew brilliantly, superb power and a definate improvement on the old 2007 models. However... after 30 mins I wiped out on a wave then the kite looped and hit the water (not too hard); one of the lazy-pump connector tubes popped off at both ends and the kite completely deflated except for 3 of the struts (not much bouyancy with 3 small struts!). I was lucky that I was only 30m away from the shore and managed to get back safely.

I understand that there is a lot more tubes out than foils which makes the statistics worse for them compared to the number of kites but anyway, from what I read, tubes are not that better to my point of view if I consider all the issues in very brands.

[mv]

Actually, I do not see and understand why foils are so critisized. Nearlly every week I can read a report on a forum saying "I experience this problem with my brand new tube", "how to repair this or that..."...

It is basically a total lack of understanding about foil kites. I get all sorts of comments from people who have never seen a foil kite in action when they first see me pull mine out of the bag. Then once they have seen my foils in action and get interested in trying them out.

I will be the first person to tell you that I do not recommend foil kites for anyone unless they have had the time to try one out and understand the way to properly use a foil kite. Foil kites are different from LEI kites and take some different skills to use and are not for everyone. Nothing difficult to understand just different.

People that criticize foil kites are usually people that have absolutely no experience with a foil kite beyond a trainer kite or used one several years ago and assume that no advances have been made since then. Then there are people like PMU who just start threads like this to spread the hate. He just likes to hate on foils. The best we can figure out is that he gets his rocks off on it

All of the criticisms put fourth by PMU are completely bogus and are irrelevant. He does have one good point though that foil kites are not taking PKRA tour titles but most people I know could really care less. I ride waves and skim boards and basically could care less about the tour. I got bored with freestyle as I am too old to do that stuff and find wave and skim board riding much more my cup of tea.

[errolprowse]

i think we are getting some hate and jealousy for the last of the tube kiters, they will eventually become an extinct species.
once any of them try a foil kite there whole opinion would change.
Its just a matter of time till they all change over.
and plus, foils are so much more fun overall!!!

[kenny KAF]

foils are so much more fun overall!!!

This is a pretty individualistic point of view. You're writing this because you like your kites. Others will probably not. I love my peter lynn but do not really like the handling of the flysurfers. Both are foils but they still are differents. Same goes between 2 different tube kites... Too much of a personnal feeling to be used as a statment

[ALGOR]

Just some *essentials* notes:

1) Try to selfrescue with a FS or PL... (LOL & Re-LOL )
2) The airflow could better in a ram's shape if that was RIGID, not in case a wing is SOFT (!)... so that credence is absolutely false .
3) All theory about aerodinamics, vortex etc etc works at HIGH speed (you can see difference in airplain, or in a supersonic from mach1 to mach2... not in a "stupid" object that cannot reach 100kts...)
4) the stability of a RAM under strong gust, as key detail in some disciplines, is ridiculous...

For me rams have sense to exist just in mountain due to light winds, almost stable, and flat profile (better weight = better responce in light wind & better bouyancy). For the rest there isnt competition & safety.

[MonkeyAir]

Actually have self rescued with PL since the first waterfoil. No problem at all. The problem is not keeping air in but rather getting it all out. Have seen very old and worn out arcs in the kelp bed a few miles south of where they were released the day before (broken spreader bars), still floating well the next morning when we paddled out to get them. Self rescue is actually very easy and will admit to have needed to actually take lines off of an old FS mastair 3/4 mile off shore, reatach them and then relaunched the kite and headed in. Never thought it would work but it one hell of a paddle in and worth the atempt.. The PL are easier for us with the simplicity and lack of bridles. Just adding a twist of the tips together and the bar inside the wrap, adds pressure and the wind over the top pulls you in. Came in after dark 2dary to breaking a line this way in the first years of the arc. Since then the kites have improved dramatically, so it is a no brainer. Like any kite, it is knowing proper relaunch and self rescue techniques. Have rescued inumerable tube brands out here that the users could not get to relaunch. It is generally us on arcs rescuing them as the synergy will sit overhead with no input while you are setting up the lei for relaunch in the water or rolling it up for the rider to drag them both in. The syn is probably the least self centering of the arcs with it's increased performance to date but still light years more user friendly than any tube we have tried. Just hate making rescues when using my lei kites. After teaching for twelve years, we know what really works in real surf and gusty winds. Stability, durability and safety are with the PL and why they are part of the quiver. No smooth trade winds here unfortunately. JMHO

[voodoospirit]

yup, not much a problem to self rescue with a PL and to rescue others as well.
i already brought back a LEI kite to its owner with my PL kite all trimmed in, on the suicide leash, autozenithed while i was hooked to the LEI kite and riding back with it. i was in the low/mid range of my kite otherwise i wouldn t even tried that. the PL kite was interfering a bit on the trajectory but still worked.

[ALGOR]

I dont think self rescue is easy to do with a PL and about impossible with a RAM SLE...
And not only that. if the wind turn in OFF side, or you have a phisical problel, in water, I can assure you: is a great advantage to have a floating object.
I know a guy that selfrescue with only the board... all is possible... but it is not the easy way to survive.

Not only that... try to self rescue a PL in *really* strong wind... (30/35+kts!) and post a video...
Please: we should be realistic and honest with ourself...

NOTE: I talk about SELFrescue, not rescue another rider...

[MonkeyAir]

Actually am usually the only one out in those sort of winds for the last umpteen years as only the PL's would handle the gusts till the bow/sle kites came along. Lots of self rescues in that stuff and yes the PL is a very good floatation device. Just try to get all the air out of one intentionally and you will see..LOL.... We test as many lei's and foils as we can each year and I have 26 years of lifeguarding experience. To mainain pressure in the arc, you only need to roll the tips one more time while floating in with in. Done it many times. If you rip a kite in half, be it a lei or a foil, you are screwed for floatation. Have had five instances now testing brand new sle and bow kites where a connector breaking/disconecting or bladder burst has left me stranded with no floatation at sea, with only my surfboard and personal ability to tread water keeping me afloat. If you can't swim in from that distance from shore, you should not be out there. This is the first thing we teach out junior guards and students. Have paddled in a mile with the Lynn on only a leash line dragging behind me many times secondary to total wind drop, line breaks. No worries. No water in kite and a few times with a bit from heavy surf pounding. It all comes to knowing what to do. The lynn layes flat on the water surface and not upright and spinning like an lei to catch wind and drag you out to sea. Get the facts and then respond. Been in this business since the beginning and teaching water sports my entire life in surf. I just don't suffer B.S. well.

[ALGOR]

I do not doubt you can SelfRescue your RAM, after 25 year of experience.
I guess It cannot be so easy x beginners and in strong winds or x big size.

I respect your opinion and abilities, try to consider my different point of view.
Let me see the position of other kite instructor...