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 Post subject: Re: LIES, Damn LIES, by RAM lovers
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:58 am 
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By the way, the information on this Flysurfer page was relevant 4 years ago. Today most of the points are simply not true.
Except maybe "More compact and lighter (saves excess baggage when traveling)"


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 Post subject: Re: LIES, Damn LIES, by RAM lovers
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:11 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:44 pm
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PMU's toy is an inflatable airplane:

Image

When he grows up, his toy will be:

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 Post subject: Re: LIES, Damn LIES, by RAM lovers
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:11 am 
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schmoe wrote:
By the way, the information on this Flysurfer page was relevant 4 years ago. Today most of the points are simply not true.


The claims made by Flysurfer were NEVER true; not today, not yesterday. Simple outright lies and exaggerations. The biggest lie that still get some currency today is the bullshit about "two FlySurfer kites covering the same wind range as three LEI."


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 Post subject: Re: LIES, Damn LIES, by RAM lovers
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:30 am 
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Pump me up wrote:
The claims made by Flysurfer were NEVER true; not today, not yesterday. Simple outright lies and exaggerations.


That I don’t agree with you. Before the advances in LEI in design, flysurfers had some advantages that were major.

They were usually easier to relaunch (not always, depends on model), almost always had better wind range and more power per square meter. That is not to say they were better kites. They did have sketchy safeties that were not in the league of 5th line or even single line release on a C kite, and they did turn slower compared to LEI size with the same power, back stalled, slower response time, and were a lot more complicated.

Set up time I don’t think changed that much. A bridle tangle on flysurfer can mean that you do not go out. In one case I have seen an entire day on a vacation lost after the kite went inside out and no one could figure out how to resolve it. In that crazy case, someone else had a flysurfer kite exactly the same model, so the guy took the bridle apart and rebuilt it based on the other kite. The chances of having two same flysurfer models from two people in such a small remote place is near zero. For me I had many lost hours where the wind is cranking because of the bridles. I rather inflate 5 tubes and know that the setup time is exactly 10 minutes, no more no less, than have setup time that is 70% 5 minutes and 30% an hour. And now with one pump, the setup time of a tube is less, so it is not an advantage of the foil anymore.

But for the record, I think your original post is a joke.


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 Post subject: Re: LIES, Damn LIES, by RAM lovers
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:31 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:49 am
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Location: Japan
Hey can I buy an electric pump for my LEI? It's too much hard work ...


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 Post subject: Re: LIES, Damn LIES, by RAM lovers
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:24 am 
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schmoe wrote:
A bridle tangle on flysurfer can mean that you do not go out. In one case I have seen an entire day on a vacation lost after the kite went inside out and no one could figure out how to resolve it. In that crazy case, someone else had a flysurfer kite exactly the same model, so the guy took the bridle apart and rebuilt it based on the other kite. The chances of having two same flysurfer models from two people in such a small remote place is near zero. For me I had many lost hours where the wind is cranking because of the bridles. I rather inflate 5 tubes and know that the setup time is exactly 10 minutes, no more no less, than have setup time that is 70% 5 minutes and 30% an hour. And now with one pump, the setup time of a tube is less, so it is not an advantage of the foil anymore.


hmmmm. you compare a normale set up of a lei to a worst case set up of a flysurfer?

usually you unpack your fs kite, roll it out, walk out the lines upwind and off you go.

no real need to say that getting a fs kite into the air is just as quick as unrolling your tubekite and pumping the smallest strut ;-)

anyhow, imagine having a leak somewhere in your onepump system! that will take you a day or longer to search for.

so you cant compare a bridle tangle (which is caused by the rider most of the time or faulty packing after last session) on a flysurfer kite to a normal set up of an lei ;-)

anyhow, i dont really get the point of all that hating :rollgrin: even think its funny.

how many of you guys use PCs and how many do use MACs ? different systems but in the end everyone has fun writing a huge amount of stuff on kiteforums :roll:

i recently changed from inflatos to flysurfers and for me i am very happy with the kites and their performance. took a bit of time tio get 100% used to but give me one example of a systemchange you dont have to adjust to for a litle time ;-)

either way if the tube is the mac or the fs is the mac, if you come from a PC its simply different. most ppl demoing a flysurfer unfortunatly dont see the point that it is a defferent system you gotta adjust to and give it a chance.....! first time i tried a mac i hated it, after a few days i loved it and never wanted to go back :)

ok, think that was my sunday-pray for now! AMEN


ps-PMU, pls pn me for details ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: LIES, Damn LIES, by RAM lovers
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:22 am
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Location: PBKiteboarding.com Sales-Repair-Lessons Ozone, Aboards, Flysurfer, OR, Canada USA Worlwide
Efficiency:



Never used to kite on days like this, summer used to be a drag, but now:



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 Post subject: Re: LIES, Damn LIES, by RAM lovers
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 10:13 pm 
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nice vid :) especially the second one. which cam r u using?


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 Post subject: Re: LIES, Damn LIES, by RAM lovers
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:55 pm 
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The setup time on a flysurfer is maybe shorter in the best case. But on average it is not. The setup time of a tube is almost always the same time. Pumping today is not an issue. One pump, flapper valves and small leading edges, it is quick.

The setup time of advantage of the flysurfer is because the lines are connected to the kite, not because of pumping. I used to leave the lines connected to the tube as well, but at some point figured out its really a nuisance. The setup time of the tube kites today is so short that those two minutes saving are not worth the hassles in packing.


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 Post subject: Re: LIES, Damn LIES, by RAM lovers
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:54 am 
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i ride peter lynn kites most of the time but my light wind kite is a speed² 15. i REALLY HATE all those bridles.. but packing up the kite is fast and not an hassle (despite the bar sucks for the line arrangement), never had much troubles with packing up but the few times i had to QR the kites in emergency ( that s the part : "i hate those bridles" kick in)
like schmoe says, one pump LEI kites r fast to set up now but i saw many guys coming back to shore because they didn t pump enough their LE or had leaking or set up too fast and got lines troubles..or got their pump stolen (yeah....u might smile but that exist...)

good days, any kite can be set up fast, bad days, u spend too much time trying fixing troubles with your kites while others r on the water.

but well, not pumping and have your kite in less than 2mn in the air after it s out of the bag is always cool...
for me, peter lynn kites and LEI kites set up are roughly the same ( considering the PL kite is all packed), the only difference is you won t need a pump or someone to help u to launch (not everyone can self launch a LEI), but the FS kites r still wayy faster to unpack and launch.

btw if PL kites could be reverse launched and had an efficient low wind kite, i wouldn t even look back at FS kites....but well.....until that day =)


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