Is there a safe and painless way to learn kite loops?

[tautologies]

I am comfortable looping my kite while I am riding on water and snow (board is on the surface). I have spent a couple of sessions trying kite loops off of back rolls. Even these hurt some. Any advice?

I'm not saying that you can't get hurt, but to do a backroll kiteloop, you need two things. Timing and feel.

Timing: your loop should not start immediately, it should start at about half way around in your backroll..maybe even a little more...if you don't want a lot of power, start it from almost above you....the loop will pull you the rest of the way, you'll land with power and speed....

Feel (control): then if you feel the kite pulling too hard...in the loop sheet out. Of course it depends a little on what kite you have, but this strategy works really well on the helix...for me it works a little less well on the raven. Although it gives enough feedback, it depowers less and slower than the helix. I know some kites that it doesn't work with...so be aware of that, but there are probably many ktes that gives you good feedback and control. It is important to have a kite that gives you feedback on where it is and how much power there is in it IMO.

So start with the backrolls where you don't send the kite too hard, and you use your head to turn instead of speed and board...

The important thing is to not LOCK in...that is when a simple backroll kiteloop ends up being a 20 foot slam and pain. You ALWAYS know it will be painful when you can hear the kite hit the water and you are still well airborne...

[tautologies]

oh, and once you commit, COMMIT. The most painful experiences I've had it those when I chicken out.

[ptraykovski]

unhooked!

seriously the biggest problem with learning kiteloops is chickening out halfway through and the kite powers up and goes straight. on unhooked loops once both hand are on one side of the bar you can't uncommit..also forces the kite to turn really tight so it stalls a bit and depowers .
You can also just let go if completely out of control, unlike hooked ones


or really underpowerd hooked so you can't possiblly get more than 4 feet off the water, but this is a bit limted

I have taken way worse beatings hooked than unhooked on kiteloops

[Eduardo]

tomw has a nice ordering for progressing

tautologies has good tips to throw in a backroll - but please don't try that until you're at #5 on tomw's list. some of my more painful crashes was trying to combine backroll + kiteloop before I really got the kiteloop.

overall, you'll definitely have a bunch of "damn that really hurt" moments no matter what. but if you're smart about it and understand what's happening, you can probably avoid breaking something or hospitals.

there's a lot of power. if you weigh 150 pounds. even a normal jump probably lifts you up at 300 pounds of force. now when you loop your kite, you're deciding that you want even more force. so if you mess up and all the forces add in the wrong way, you will feel a 500 pound slam. but if you do it right, it's just a super-fun jump.

[Miss Lovely]

See, I think backrolls are the easiest way to learn kiteloops. I always find that trying to do a straight jump with a loop is harder because it's really easy to get pulled off centre. With a backroll, you're already turning. Actually, front roll with aa kiteloop is even easier, because you need more height to do a normal front-roll without a kiteloop, so when you incorporate a kiteloop you have less chance of hitting the water too soon.

I learned them in light wind, on a large C kite (a ten), and doing transitions. I did a slow backroll, and then a kiteloop to pull me out of the end of the backroll. Gradually I made the kiteloop happen sooner and sooner. This way I could ramp it up as I gained a feel for the pull of the kite and not to scare myself to death.

Disclaimer - I've never tried these on a bow kite.. (Well, I have but it was too frustrating and I gave up almost immediately). Also, I don't have balls so ignore my advice at will.

[scklandl]

there are two kids of loops.

pussyloops and kiteloops.

pussylooper loop the kite on the way back down to the water

kiteloopers loop on the way up

pussyloops are easier in light winds 12m+
kiteloops are easiest to start on a 7m

you got people giving you advice for BOTH kinds of loops here, so adjust accordingly

[scklandl]

ps. the baseball grip is for pansies with the wrong kite up in the air

[ian c]

it is good that there is the term mega loop now

[Miss Lovely]

Hmm well I suppose I am saying, start off with pussy loops and then when you have the feel of the looping then work up to pulling them sooner and higher.

I'm standing by the backroll thing for learning though - because basically, if it all goes wrong, you'll be facing the other way! Nothing worse than watching your fate coming to get you.

I'd never heard the baseball grip before, but sure, if it makes you feel like less of a 'pussy' then grab the bar like a fully grown man wearing shiny knickerbockers. Get into it.

[Peter_Frank]

Is there a safe and painless way to learn kite loops?
Re: Sit in front of the computer and read about it - VERY safe

Just joking - but to the topic:

Can only agree with both Scklandl and Miss Lovely.

First there has been given advice on both the "easy" ones, and also the "tough" ones as he said.
Secondly, I am also 100% sure that the backroll is the easiest to do as Miss Lovely says.
But first after the initial "downloops on jumps and kiteloops when not leaving the water" sit on the backbone

Apart from that - the reason why kiteloops ARE fun, are because of the very "power" act and being more risky of course... If it werent for that, it would not be fun, right ?
You get up, and suddenly you get yanked by the kite like a kick in the butt (and if a gust hits, you get REALLY hammered), and you land with so much speed often, that it is really a feat to master the landing

There is an earlier thread about this exact same "learning kiteloops" issue somewhere - anyone who can find a link ? (I am on my way out on the water right now, sunny and 7m2 wind, so I am off )

:- ) Peter