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 Post subject: Re: North Rebel 2010 Photos
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:20 pm
Posts: 72
Location: for heaven's sake - it's BRIDLE!
Rightly or wrongly, manufacturers including kite companies generally don't have an interest in maintaining second hand values on their products unless there is money to be made in selling the products and services to keep them going. Whatever you think of North, I think they deserve some credit for providing a good range of spares for new and older models - this is true in the UK at least. Managing to keep a single bar working for all kites for the last 4 years is pretty good too. I don't agree that North stuff has a poor resale value either, I've sold a few old kites recently and the second hand market seems pretty good right now if you're selling a well known brand.

Related to this - one thing that's just appeared recently in the UK is North dealers offering generous trade-ins on 06/7/8 vegases - send an old one in, any condition, and get a new 09 for reduced price. The question is why and where are the kites going? The only conclusion I can make is that they want the old ones off the second hand market to maintain the value of the 09 and presumable '10 models. Is this happening anywhere else?
http://www.brackleshamboardriders.co.uk/?p=332



re: updating models each year, again its no different to any other manufacturer - a kite co. wants to be seen to be offering an improvement (whether it really is or not) or some kind of innovation each year. If they don't then people complain that they aren't doing anything new - not sure you can keep everyone pleased.

I agree about the confusion over which kite does what - I heard the Rhino has been dropped and the Rebel is being pushed into the racing/speed/big air slot while I guess the Evo will be the freeride/wave kite...? yes i know it's marketing spiel. Depends how much you want to keep up with the latest latest. Personally I wait until this time during the year and try and pick up new or lightly used gear from the previous year or year before, capitalising on the dealers wish to shift old stock and the people desperate to have this year's badge on their kit.


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 Post subject: Re: North Rebel 2010 Photos
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:58 pm 
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Att:
Dan at North..

Will there be a 5m Rebel this year (2010)...? I could use a smaller kite than my 6m

Bojsen :bye:


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 Post subject: Re: North Rebel 2010 Photos
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:09 am
Posts: 267
Location: Hood River
I'll try to address a few of the points:

Bojsen- Yes, there is a 5m

Wawando- Kite designers are constantly looking to "tone down" the smaller sizes, to make them more forgiving and less aggressive. To that end, the designers flattened the profile by 15% on the 5, 6, and 7m '10 Rebels. Apparently this makes them much softer, more comfortable, and less punchy, especially on the high end.

Flipper- who did you try to contact at North? If you're in the USA, I should've ended up with your email, and I haven't seen it. I've tested our email system a couple times and it seems to be working, but it may be a little confusing. Feel free to PM me here with your question.

For those who think this is a departure from past designs or a new design entirely, I can assure you that it is not. As I said in an earlier post, by adding a floating center strut, we are not abandoning what we've done on the '09 design. The designers were simply able to figure out a solution to the problem of maintaining the aerodynamic advantages of having no center strut like the '09 while improving on the LE instability, which was the primary complaint about the '09. This innovation also naturally led to some other design improvements such as moving the quarter struts towards the wingtips to give the kite a larger luffable area. If you don't get it, wait till you see one in person or take one out and you'll understand.

I've ridden a few of the medium sizes and spoken to people who have flown much of the range and the overwhelming response is that though we are continuing to refine the design, we have maintained the feel and responsiveness that have always made the Rebels extremely popular. These kites will become more widely available around the beginning of September, so check with your dealers for more information/demos.


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 Post subject: Re: North Rebel 2010 Photos
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:43 pm 
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Does anybody know what is going on with Norths directionals for 2010?


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 Post subject: Re: North Rebel 2010 Photos
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:22 am 
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Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 4:56 pm
Posts: 106
Location: Winchester
Re Comment: I agree about the confusion over which kite does what - I heard the Rhino has been dropped and the Rebel is being pushed into the racing/speed/big air slot while I guess the Evo will be the freeride/wave kite...?

Is this true? Surely they cant be dumping the Rhino ?????

Dan? North? Bracklesham? Can anyone comment in earnest? Will there be a Rhino 2010?


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 Post subject: Re: North Rebel 2010 Photos
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:23 pm
Posts: 74
For those commenting on the kite design, I would disagree.

The Vegas for many years stayed to be the freestyle option on the North Shelf.

The Rebel in its 3rd. years stayed to be the freeride kite.

So, where is the change? I do not see a change but I can see an improvement here or there in order to improve performance year after year. If North is doing so, that means that these guys work from Monday to Friday.

Personally, If I see a kite company that will stick to the same design from 2007-2008-2009 like the Naish Torch, I already assumed that the Naish designers did not work on improving the Torch enough time compared to what they are trying to do on the Helix. Eventually, I would prefer until today to go and buy a brand new 2007 Torch that is the same as the 08-09 more or less.

The Rebels here has a very good resale value. I saw the guys selling their 8 Rebels at 70% of their original value. SO? The Rebel had the best re-sale value compared to the Helix 2008 that was sold at 40% of its original price.

One word that I respect North about is that they do not sell hype, they speak technical words. While other companies start to say the biggest, the best, the tallest, the highest, you read the North catalogue, you select, you buy, and you get what you read exactly..

MFG


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 Post subject: Re: North Rebel 2010 Photos
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:09 am
Posts: 267
Location: Hood River
Air-Tastic (and anyone else confused about the lineup)-

MFG is exactly right about the lineup (thanks). Though many of the top racers are using the Rebel as a race kite (not least of whom is Sean Farley, who rode the 2010 Rebel to win the US Nationals), it doesn't change the fact that the kite is still, as originally intended, a freeride/wave kite. It also happens to jump very well, but we consider that to be an important aspect of a freeride kite. I don't believe that we are pushing it into the racing/speed/big air slot, but I'm not privy to future marketing/design campaigns, so please don't castigate me if I turn out to be wrong.

The Vegas is, as it has always been, our performance freestyle, high-depower C kite. There's a debate going on elsewhere on this forum as to whether the '08 depowers more than the '09, and whether the '06 unhooks better than the '08 and whether the '07 gives you more powerful F-16s than the '05 and pretty much all the technical theorizing you can wish for, but the truth is, we constantly work on tweaking and improving the design, so that every year the Vegas is what we consider to be the absolutely greatest kite for unhooked freestyle kiting.

The Evo falls between the Vegas and the Rebel. It will do waves better than the Vegas and it will do freestyle better than the Rebel. It depowers more than the Vegas, but not quite as much as the Rebel. It also is a great all around freeride kite. Basically, if you can't decide between a Rebel and a Vegas, or if you want a 4 line kite, the Evo is the kite for you. Plus it relaunches easier than anything else in our lineup, is extremely easy to fly, has great low end, and jumps well to boot.

The Rhino was our racing/speed/big air kite. But we're not going to force racers to ride a kite because of our marketing, and since the Rebel seems to be the preference among our riders for racing, and since it seems to jump just as big as the Rhino, it seems to have eclipsed the Rhino in recent years. I'm not certain whether or not they will continue the Rhino line, but there is definitely a chance that it will be fazed out in favor of some other project.

Stefaans- As far as directionals, they will be released in the next month or so, and we should have more information then. As far as I can tell, we will have 2 lines of surfboards, like last year; a race board, like last year; and a Freestylefish, like last year. We should have more details by early September.


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 Post subject: Re: North Rebel 2010 Photos
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:21 pm
Posts: 2436
Location: Portugal - Guincho; Rebel2012 5m, 9m & 2011 7m; Amundson 5'9&6'
Dan-at-North wrote:
...
Wawando- Kite designers are constantly looking to "tone down" the smaller sizes, to make them more forgiving and less aggressive. To that end, the designers flattened the profile by 15% on the 5, 6, and 7m '10 Rebels. Apparently this makes them much softer, more comfortable, and less punchy, especially on the high end.
...

This is what i expect: a less punchy small kite for nuking days. There are some Rebels 2010 with pro riders here, lets see if i can find the time to go to the beach and ask for a ride...

Rebels 2009 are really great. The only thing i miss is a softer 6m for 35+ knots days where i get too lit on Rebel09 6m when i was at ease with Rebel07 7m.

See you!


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 Post subject: Re: North Rebel 2010 Photos
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:01 pm
Posts: 350
Jomoj...

This is a surprising strategy from that retailer. Putting used North on the market makes more people ride them. For instance, I bought 8 North kites in 2 years and a half and sold 5 of them. The people who bought my used kites were very happy to get them with a saving of 25-40% guess what? they were using old C kites or other brands. My used kites made 3 new people who will like and look for North kites in the future. I play with new gear and more money than them but but we all just do the same, get the best gear for our money, I invest 1600$ of fresh money a year but I spent about 2500$ which is recycled through resale. The day I will not be able to sell my old stuff, I will keep it until the end when it has 0 value (about 4 years). Over four years I will buy roughly 8 kites, the guys buying used do it mostly or money reasons so they will not buy new stuff not even lower priced one (Royal, Best, Griffin, etc.) I think resale is helping...New folks buying just to try, Some buy ''winter kites'' to save their summer ones from crashing on the ice, others just cannot trow 2000$ a kite but are very happy with 1200$. I think the used gear market leaves some people without a kite and they will need to replace them if they do not want to leave the sport.


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 Post subject: Re: North Rebel 2010 Photos
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:05 am 
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New photos, the official video, and a test (in french) :

http://www.surfingarea.com/index.php/20 ... video.html


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