Eclipse Surge

[suRff]

a few weeks ago, i had three 07-08 fuels in the back of my car for one day on a semi hot day (25-30C). every single (yes every fuking single) valve leaked afterward. 5 hours of patching and swearing and one kite is back in business and the other two still leak causing me to miss sessions.. imagine a bike tire in the tour de france going flat because the hot pavement melts the valve attachment.. how is it the bike tube companies have figured it out. how ridiculous is it that kite tubes can't take the heat.

so.. i am not in love with these kite. they are what i know and like the best. downside is the range is very narrow and when even slightly over powered they sit back in the pocket pull like trucks. i've learned to live with these things and 'love' the simplicity of a 4 line C.

i downwind more than i kite/launch from a set spot. after tons of downwinders where im stuck waiting on friends to untangle bridles, swim ashore their inverted kites, fix blocked pulleys, untangle wrapped 5th lines... etc. i'll take the good with the bad on my simple 4 line Cs in the waves over the complexities of the modern SLE kite. btw, no probs waiting on friends on deserted beaches. clears the mind and offers plenty of taking the piss after the sesh!

i def can't speak for the masses as i have not even been able to convince my friends and riders around me to switch back to C. i don't bother trying. to each his/her own.

super fast smooth simple 4 line non-bridled forward flying kite with a little de-power is all i ask.. looks like you guys are heading in the right direction there.

[leepasty]

Hi Guys
Anyone who is interested in Eclipse in the UK can e mail me- lee@eclipsekites.com or contact me through my website www.leepasty.co.uk
i am down in west cornwall and currently have kimas and a thruster available to test if anyone is interested?
i mainly ride waves and can be found where its biggest and cross shore everyday its windy!
Going to Portugal for kpwt event for 3 weeks now but will be back 9th august and will hopefully have the new Surge shortly after.
Mickey give me a ring next time your down and you can try it out or the Kimas, perfect for these gusty winds weve been having, the 6 just stays in the sky whatever unlike another new kite out at gwithian on tuesday
happy riding
Lee

[sflinux]

Hi Dimitri,
I just thought I'd throw this out there. On a manufacturer's (foil) forum, they set up a novel idea of demoing a kite. A waiting list was formed. The kite was sent to the first person on the list to demo. They would demo the kite, then pay for the shipping to the next person on the list. That next person would then do the same.
I think it would be great if the kitesurfing industry could somehow set up a similar system to demo kites. I definately want to demo the Surge. I'm lucky to live in an area where a Eclipse distributer lives. I'm sure the majority is not so lucky.

What sizes will the Surge come in?

@ Bill, how does the Surge compare to your Rage2 and Outrage designs?
Thanks.
(Tried many c's (Naish, Slingshot, Cabrinha, Windwing, Wipika, etc), but the only one I love is RRDs 2005/2006 c's, of which they stopped making)

[cowboy]

A waiting list was formed. The kite was sent to the first person on the list to demo. They would demo the kite, then pay for the shipping to the next person on the list. That next person would then do the same.
I think it would be great if the kitesurfing industry could somehow set up a similar system to demo kites.

Another couple of brands in the UK are doing something similar.

One will send a kite out on request and you have to get it back to them.

Another has formed a list and are sending out kites for a 10 day period. Credit card details are taken so kites dont get nicked, and you pay for in house repair if you bust the kite. Kites only sent out to the registered address for the credit card.

I believe that the 2nd is a safer way for the company. But as margins for some companies arent massive dictates whether they can or how many

[Hansen Design]

SF:
Sizes are 5, 7, 9, 11sqm.
Outrage was a high-aspect powerful jumping C kite mostly built to satisfy Flash Austin's view of what a kite should do. Rage2 was a mid-aspect user-friendly all-round C. Surge is different in many important ways so there should be no confusion that it is a re-hash of older designs even though it may look similar. Other than the requirement that it would be a C kite, we started with a blank page looking specifically at what Felix believes works best for his style of riding. Then we made a variety of protos exploring the radical fringes of certain parameters - some of which may have never been tried (at least by me.) This approach gave us a direction which became refined by sequentially eliminating the negatives and keeping the positives.

What sizes will the Surge come in?
@ Bill, how does the Surge compare to your Rage2 and Outrage designs?
(Tried many c's (Naish, Slingshot, Cabrinha, Windwing, Wipika, etc), but the only one I love is RRDs 2005/2006 c's, of which they stopped making)

[RipItUp]

A few questions:

1. Never got my question answered about whether there are any bridles on the Surge or not? I assume it is a direct pigtail connect to the kite? If so it must be the stability of the kite that is allowing for more depower than a conventional C when using a SLE type of bar. To tell you the truth I don't think we ever tried using a long throw / SLE type of bar setup on the older C kites, so I don't know what the outcome would have been. Certainly on some older C kites it would not have worked with a SLE long throw bar as they were prone to Hindenburging.

2. It was mentioned that bar pressure was an element of the design that was given effort to make it to Felix's specifications. What is the bar pressure like? Heavy, medium, light, and is there any ability (alternate pigtail locations) that the rider can customize the level of bar pressure? Is the bar pressure progressive with the amount of trim given the kite (light during depower and progressing to heavy when fully powered up), or is it more consistent through out the trim range?

3. I noticed in the picture of Felix holding the red and white Surge upside down, that kite seems to have an inflatable strut at the end of the wingtip, where the pictures of the green Surge looks to only have a hard batten at the wingtip. Was the inflatable wingtip strut a prototype, or does the final designed Surge have both an inflatable wingtip strut with a hard batten next to it?

Thanks

[K3rM1t]

Sick looking kite! I totally stayed away from C kites for years since we found so many benefits to the bow/SLE/Hybrid kites in our shitty light shifty conditions. That is, until I pulled out an old worthless C kite for "retro day" last year. The kite was super fun and like putting on an old favorite pair of shoes. This year I was able to fly the Liquid Force HiFi 15m a few times and was shocked at how improved the C-kite has become. The Hi-Fi does actually depower. I'm sure it's not enough for everyone, and the same people that complain the Thruster doesn't depower enough will still complain about the Hi-Fi, but it was enough for me.

I'm very excited to try out the new hotness in C kites! It may not be my quiver of choice, but then again.... it just might...

[Hansen Design]

Rip:
1) Surge is designed as a 4-Line direct-to-the-kite configuration. There is a 5th line anchor for those who want one. We are also investigating other alternatives for heavyweights likely to use the kite in more extreme conditions. The design trade-off is a 5th or other support lines or bigger LE tubes (and higher weight) meaning a slower, less eager to-the-edge kite. Our choice is to avoid oversized tubes as insurance against the kites being given a bad rap by those who choose to use them outside of a reasonable range of wind and rider weight. Larger tubes would accomplish this but the kite would fall below our expectations for performance by sitting back in the window and being sluggish in lighter conditions. This is really the only remaining decision on the Surge production and it pertains to the 9 & 11.

2) The wingtips are fairly wide and the front line position is balanced with the aerodynamic center so the bar pressure is medium-light and consistent through the range on a fixed or unhooked set-up. Felix's preference is to be able to feel the kite but not have to compensate his strapless stance or grow weary flying it. Clearly if you CL the Surge and sheet out until the rear lines go slack, the bar pressure falls to zero.

3) Surge has 'hard' composite battens only. Some early protos had inflatable tips. IMHO, there is no need to have both. We feel the hard batten is lighter, gives the kite a tighter, more responsive feel and being independent of inflation pressure, is more reliable.

A few questions:

1. Never got my question answered about whether there are any bridles on the Surge or not? I assume it is a direct pigtail connect to the kite? If so it must be the stability of the kite that is allowing for more depower than a conventional C when using a SLE type of bar. To tell you the truth I don't think we ever tried using a long throw / SLE type of bar setup on the older C kites, so I don't know what the outcome would have been. Certainly on some older C kites it would not have worked with a SLE long throw bar as they were prone to Hindenburging.

2. It was mentioned that bar pressure was an element of the design that was given effort to make it to Felix's specifications. What is the bar pressure like? Heavy, medium, light, and is there any ability (alternate pigtail locations) that the rider can customize the level of bar pressure? Is the bar pressure progressive with the amount of trim given the kite (light during depower and progressing to heavy when fully powered up), or is it more consistent through out the trim range?

3. I noticed in the picture of Felix holding the red and white Surge upside down, that kite seems to have an inflatable strut at the end of the wingtip, where the pictures of the green Surge looks to only have a hard batten at the wingtip. Was the inflatable wingtip strut a prototype, or does the final designed Surge have both an inflatable wingtip strut with a hard batten next to it?

Thanks

[richswing]

Hi Mr Hansen,

Why don't you make the wingtip batten folder able like the dome tents that use carbon fibre rods elastic bands and a colar. If you make the batten slightly shorter in the sleave, it may allow for the wingtip to be folded without removing the batton for travelling, etc. I just got a kite with a very stiff 400mm baton half way up on the wing and I am considering doing the above.

There are short comings doing this but I am sure a good design would overcome these except for human error like not locking in the two halves of the baton before launching.

Just an idea.

Cheers
Rich

[BWD]

Somebody could make a collapsing batten with a bayonet mount or twist lock type thing in the middle that really would help with packing kites up
but it would also cost a lot more than standard sized tubing
Do you want a $50 batten?