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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse Surge
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:14 pm 
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thx for the info Bill.

But what is the difference between a Naish Torch or Slingshot Fuel and the Surge?


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse Surge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 3:36 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Guys the best thing will be to have riders that already ride on Torch, Fuels and Hadlow C kite to try the SURGE and give some input on the FORUM after trying the SURGE from ECLIPSE. We already know the answer :thumb: , and that is why we are very confident about the SURGE kite. Team Riders friends from these companies have tested the SURGE just to see and could not believe it.
Now the bar will be a 4 line bar like we have now but we are changing few things around to make it even better.

But Bill can give you some more technical info about these kites compare to our new C kite.

Bill???

Thanks Toby


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse Surge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:39 am 
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Location: USA
The reality is that I don't have significant technical information on other company's products so making comparisons would be presumptuous and my personal policy is to avoid them.

Surge does have some features of interest which may or may not be unique in today's C kite market:

The LE tube is a continuous curve construct rather than a series of short straight sections with angular joints which approximate a curve. This presents a clean shape to the flow and is generally stiffer allowing a smaller tube to reduce drag.

Surge has a dedicated hard batten at the wingtip which some may consider 'old school.' The batten is a composite tube and very light compared to an inflatable tip and will remain structurally stiff regardless of inflation pressure and dynamic load. Felix and I both feel this is a performance advantage well worth the compromise of having a longer package when the kite is stowed.

Surge has drooping wingtips which I began doing many years ago with Lou Waiman's custom speed kites - I believe they are more efficient - we tried protos both ways.

Surge has other features that are less obvious and some which are proprietary but a primary non-visual feature is lightweight. Felix and I worked very hard to reduce the weight without losing durability. To us, this is key in producing a C kite which will eagerly fly to the edge and stay there (a prime criteria for Felix.) Park & Ride flyers can also enjoy the Surge by tuning the AOA to make it drift back but the eagerness to fly to the edge and stay there means chickenloop flyers will find it de-powers surprisingly well for a conventional-looking C.

Finally, Felix is very demanding about bar pressure. Significant R&D effort went into tuning the bar pressure to his preferences and the kite can be fine-tuned accordingly for fixed-bar, unhooked riders.

Obviously, Surge is highly developed along the lines of what Felix believes gives him the best performance on the water and his skills are several standard deviations from the norm. The interesting part is that the flying behavior he demands makes for an incredibly smooth, rangy and easy-to-fly kite which many SLE flyers will find surprising and desirable.


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse Surge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:55 am 
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still don't get the part about 'one kite fits all'. it does not imo. as discussed already.. a forward flying kite is better for waves (for most riders) and a kite that hangs deep in the pocket and delivers constant pull like a truck is better for guys/gals that like to pop and spin.

i was out on a 5m fuel yesterday. blowing about 40kn and gusty. sideshore, strapless, and choppy overhead waves. i was having a bitch of a time staying on the wave face. slightly under powered fuels fly forward a little better making them ideal for wave riding in those conditions (looping them when power is needed). over powered fuels sit back in the pocket and just pull and pull making things harder to control in the wave face.


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse Surge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:12 am 
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Location: uranus
LOL.


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse Surge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:00 pm
Posts: 9
Location: UK
An obvious question to Felix is how the new Surge improves on the Generator in which he had such a hand in making a great kite. They look very similiar but I would hope the Surge is even better.

I've been riding the Generator for the past 12 months and they are awesome in their correct windrange, being slightly more demanding of the rider but giving so much greater feedback and unhooked ability. Also as someone who as ridden for too many years, it is great to see a resurgence of C-kites which don't damp out all feeling in the interest of easy riding.

Also, echoing some other comments, we very rarely see Eclipse in the UK (or the rest of Europe) due to distribution problems I assume - you need to rectify this.


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse Surge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:16 pm 
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Location: Perth, Australia
Looking at the Surge pics, the first thing I noticed was the smooth profile of the struts compared to the 2008/9 Eclipse struts that virtually had a 90 degree elbow. Are the next range going to be smoothed out.

All was wondered if these harsh elbows caused the kites to surge forwards after a big gust and possible cause the kite to luff.

With all these smooth curves, I presume the cost must reflect the engineering and manufacturing.

Surge looks like a nice kite but a bit hardcore for me. I have just bought a NEW OS 7m for the same reason Felix likes the Surge, sitting forward in the window and was curious why most prefer kites that sit deeper - thanks for the reply Felix.

Cheers
Rich


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse Surge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:10 am
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Location: Nassau,Bahamas
Ok Dimitri and Crew, you've made a banging Pop kite in the Thruster, a surf kite in the Kima(haven't flown mine yet) Now a C kite on it's way, brought your twin tip boards on line (already order my Dee 128 Pro ) Now where's the fucking Surfboards? :D :D :rollgrin:


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse Surge
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:06 pm 
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Posts: 52
Hi,

We really tried to focus on efficiency when building the Surge making sure the kite was stable,not to twitchy and unpredictable. Keeping it fast ,smooth and forward flying.While it still created a consistant power while turning it so you can get away with a smaller kite.

We also kept it real consistent feel thru the whole range so when you down size to a smaller kite your not going to find that its too fast.

Felix


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 Post subject: Re: Eclipse Surge
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:23 am 
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Location: OUTER BANKS (NC) USA. Owner of EPICKITES
Hello suRFF,
Since you are in love with you Fuel kite maybe you need to try the KIMA 4 or the SURGE 5. So you can give us some input and let people know what you think!!!
Cameron Maramenides loves the KIMA 4.

Photo: CHRIS CIFERS.


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