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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer Speed3 - The Ultimate Flying Machine
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:30 pm 
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What no internet acces in Italy or NDA's?


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer Speed3 - The Ultimate Flying Machine
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 1:00 am
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Location: Crystal Palace
Try here on foilzone

http://www.foilzone.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12131&sid=76446d67da1063b4a6a95f76bb98fd34


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer Speed3 - The Ultimate Flying Machine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:46 pm 
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Location: The United Mistakes of America
The real differences between the Speed vs a tube / surfboard in light wind:

1) Heavier riders can get going with the Speed.
2) You can use a fast twin-tip instead of a big slow floaty board.
3) Upwind is significantly better.
4) Tricks/jumps happen sooner.
5) The kite stays in the air better (especially the lightweight Silverarrow / Deluxe editions). This is also a benefit for lighter riders.
6) You don't have to work the f*ck out of the kite the whole time.

(Some guys say they don't care about any of these things, and would rather stick with LEI's despite the disadvantages - don't bother trying to convert them, but don't feel bad when they get left behind either.)

The main disadvantage of the Speed2 is turning, compared to smaller, less powerful kites (duh) - but for its size/power, it turns quite well. The other disadvantage is that the Speed "only" adds a few more mph to the bottom end, so at spots where the wind is rarely that light, or never settles in that range, you can get by with a smaller kite if you're willing to skip a few days or wait around for things to pick up.

As for relaunch, IMO you don't want to relaunch ANY kite in light wind - as soon as it gets wet, it gets heavier... The advantage of foils is that they STAY in the air.

The questions to ask are:
1) How often are you in that "wish we had a few more knots" windrange? At some spots, it won't be worth $2500 just for a few extra days, but at other spots it might double your time on the water - and not just cruising time, it will also increase your jumping/fun time.
2) When the wind is light, do you want to park the kite, go upwind, and do tricks, or would you rather walk back upwind after a slow cruise while working the f*ck out of the kite? (I'm not judging your decision, just don't expect me to sympathize over beers afterward - I mean, I'll glady go for beer, but won't be able to hide my grin... :cheers: )


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer Speed3 - The Ultimate Flying Machine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:03 pm 
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Location: midwest
there is no fun to be had under 15 knts

if you want to spend the money it would take for a 2 kite quiver that would get you out from 15-35 to ride in wind so light that there is no intensity then go for it.


I am 200lbs and my largest kite is a 12m lei and with my 135x41 I am rocking at 15knts

life is too short to mess around with light wind, my advice get a sailboat and have fun with your friends and loved ones.

Ultimate Flying Machine, whatever suckers.


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer Speed3 - The Ultimate Flying Machine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:16 pm 
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Location: europe
hum in 10knots i m as much powered as in 15knots with a 12m LEI.. in 15 knots, the jumps start to be kinda high with a speed²...sending back a LEI to a toy'r us party... and i m on a 130*37 at 10knots already, parked and powered.

if u dont have many lightwind ( sub 12knots), just stick with a LEI, they will be powerful enough if u have a big/medium board..if u live in a light wind spot....u need a more powerful kite so u can have fun and not crawling on the water with a 12LEI or buy a 14 LEI but they r heavier..if u have lulls....


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer Speed3 - The Ultimate Flying Machine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:04 pm 
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Location: Bavaria
Just for info. My 9m Delta LEI gets going earlier than my old 10m PS4 or 10m PS2 did.
It is also way more stable, doesn't tip tuck or fold in half in mid air and turns way faster.
The Speed2 10m still gets going a little earlier than my 9m Delta LEI but once I get my 10.5m Delta than this is probably also a thing of the past.
So lets cut the chase. The days where a foilkite got going earlier than a tube are long gone and thus can't be claimed as a legitimate advantage anymore.
Yes, a large 19m SA with lightweight fabric and a very efficient profile beats most LEIs for lowend but mainly because there are no big modern LEIs that are made with lightwind only in mind and are designed for this purpose alone. Most manufacturers stop at 15m and use the same technology as on their 7m which is a little heavy.
So for those guys who still come up with the same old foilclaims it is about time you jump on a very good, modern LEI and have a rethink.
I am not saying that the modern Foils aren't good kites but the advantages that have been claimed in the past don't exist anymore.
There are now only two areas where a foil is better.
1. Selflaunching. Providing you know exactly what you are doing, that it isn't very windy and/or gusty and that there aren't many twigs and branches around where the bridle catches.
2. You don't have to pump the damn thing up.

I have great admiration for anyone who is trying to create something new and different and I too was very much hoping that foils will one day be without problems and offer the same ride as a LEI, just more convenient.
Unfortunately the LEIs have taken the foil-advantages on board and thus make the choice of a foil above an LEI more a matter of conviction rather than sense but that is fine by me as conviction isn't a bad thing.
Make what you want of it but after 8years of riding foils I really do know what I am talking about.


Last edited by just do it on Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer Speed3 - The Ultimate Flying Machine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:33 pm
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Location: europe
i don t like flysurfer speed² much but until some one get a very good light wind kite (foil,ARC, LEI)that can match with it, il stick with it....and its bridles.... ( :evil: )
i jump on modern LEI (2009/2010) and they still lack the power and the relaunch ability in 8/10knots (and i have to use a bigger board which is boring)...plain and simple...or get a 17 LEI and just hope there would be no lulls....

past 12knots, picking the type of kite is a matter of personnal choice whereas the kites are bows, SLE/hybrids, ARC, foils, C-shape. the wind is enough for the relaunches..


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer Speed3 - The Ultimate Flying Machine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:04 pm 
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voodoospirit or other Speed/SA owners -

I've been considering getting the Flysurfer SA 3 but I'm worried about the complex and long bridles and the mixer process. So for those that have them now, how difficult is it to work with or manage the bridles?

The other thing I've noticed on the used ones advertised for sale they all seem to have some type of damage repair history. The newer SA fabric is more durable. Do you all think it would be better to go with the regular fabric - Speed version?


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer Speed3 - The Ultimate Flying Machine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:06 pm 
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Location: europe
@ dave

i m riding in lakes most of the time and snowkiting in winter, i don t go to the sea beaches a lot.
the bridles are some pain on the lakes beaches where there r a lot of junk things that can tangle the bridles ( quill, little wooden branches, etc...), i was used to the simplicity of the ARCs and a beginner so the changes were rough, i had to learn how to pilot an aggressive kite (flies very fast across the window) that is not tolerant to shifty/non laminar winds, dont drift much, pulls like a Corvette and lift you like a rocket...
bridles might be a problem if the kite collapse ( after a fail jump or else) and the kite twist or a tip go through the bridles.

i only done the mixer test once, to put the kite into a stability mode because the winds around here are not laminar at all, and the speed² really doesn t like that...it made the kite more stable but less aggressive (which is enough for me), i have the regular fabric but i would prefer the SA version, lighter and drift better than the regular one and more tolerant to wind variation.

flysurfer kites are often used in a kitesurf/snowkite/powerkite environment, so they might be damaged by stones, ice, shells, etc.... while a kitesurfing kite is used over the water all of the time.
i damaged my speed² a few times, made it repair by a pro repairer (or just put some kitefix on it) and no troubles at all.

i pack my kite a bit carefully (takes mes 2mn) so when i unpack it , i dont ahve tangles troubles (.while unpacking it, i check that the bridles are ok, takes me around 2 mn to unpack and RTF.i hope taht the speed3 have some reduced bridles lines.

a link to a video on my lake: full window launch in 15 (13/17) Knots ( i m 65kg with a 130/37), trimmed all the way, onshore wind, trees behind and on the sides. i step back so in case of troubles the kite don t end in the trees and I dont end into the little pier.u will see that i m on the high end of the kite cause i m trimmed in and the bar is used kinda near the top
the 11 bandit was a 80kg rider with an Acid powered and parked. i should have used my regular kite but i was lazy to go get it in the car...when i landed i had some 20knots gusts and i had troubles to stand still (getting lofted past 15knots for my weight) and landed the speed² as fast as i could.

http://www.youtube.com/user/vaudou74#pl ... ICb3Gt0_Q4


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 Post subject: Re: Flysurfer Speed3 - The Ultimate Flying Machine
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:22 am
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Location: PBKiteboarding.com Sales-Repair-Lessons Ozone, Aboards, Flysurfer, OR, Canada USA Worlwide
Some good riding here in Italy, so many 15m 19m Speed 3 Deluxe rding.... out riding today.... we needed them too.... Light winds beautiful place, scenery, mountains, thermals winds. The Speed 3 relaunch is easier than the 2 and turns faster with more depower as well. Went upwind 2k or so on the 19m Speed 3 DE, Armin was upwinding me on Eddys new race proto... and only on the 15m. We switched boards then I was going uplike nuts.... Great fun... Bet youll see allot more later from guys too, movies and picts later...

Will have a Speed 3 19m DEwhen I can back...


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