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 Post subject: Double-arm backstroke: how to easily retrieve your board!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:45 am 
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A tip for all of you who haven't thought or heard of this:

You can very easily swim upwind to your board by placing the kite at 12 and using the double-backstroke swim. All of my kites (foil, SLE, Cs) behave perfectly well for this in any strength of wind.
It is way faster than body-dragging upwind. Small corrections on the bar may be needed for long trips, to keep the kite at 12. A bit of depower may be needed if the kite tends to stall.

Do mind your head if there are waves and the board is immediately behind you - good idea to check out board position before you start (I never do :lol: ). Usually this is not an issue because usually we don't end up directly downwind of the board.
Many of us already know and a couple have talked about it here on kiteforum but it is a sweet tip that deserves its own post. :wink:
Try it, it's fun and quick!
Vangelis 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5wrQ6Ci ... re=related


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 Post subject: Re: Double-arm backstroke: how to easily retrieve your board
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:15 am 
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Ned Divine wrote:
A tip for all of you who haven't thought or heard of this:

You can very easily swim upwind to your board by placing the kite at 12 and using the double-backstroke swim. All of my kites (foil, SLE, Cs) behave perfectly well for this in any strength of wind.
It is way faster than body-dragging upwind. Small corrections on the bar may be needed for long trips, to keep the kite at 12. A bit of depower may be needed if the kite tends to stall.

Do mind your head if there are waves and the board is immediately behind you - good idea to check out board position before you start (I never do :lol: ). Usually this is not an issue because usually we don't end up directly downwind of the board.
Many of us already know and a couple have talked about it here on kiteforum but it is a sweet tip that deserves its own post. :wink:
Try it, it's fun and quick!
Vangelis 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5wrQ6Ci ... re=related


For me, this is encouraging mediocrity. A beginner should not be allowed to use a board until he can body drag efficiently upwind ( this is a technic only beginners would ever consider). Body dragging upwind is part of mastering the kite and your balance in the water and and not difficult at all.
BTW there is no way backstroking is faster just more tirng so what's the point ?.


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 Post subject: Re: Double-arm backstroke: how to easily retrieve your board
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:35 am 
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windmaker wrote:
For me, this is encouraging mediocrity. A beginner should not be allowed to use a board until he can body drag efficiently upwind ( this is a technic only beginners would ever consider). Body dragging upwind is part of mastering the kite and your balance in the water and and not difficult at all.
BTW there is no way backstroking is faster just more tirng so what's the point ?.


Ah, Windmaker, who said anything about begginers? :argue: A begginer couldn't use this technique because he/she would not let go of the bar under any circumstances! :P This is not a begginer technique and, fear not, it is not meant to put upwind body drag into obscurity!
As far as faster and tiring goes, it is really faster (try for yourself - basic law of geometry, the straight line is the shortest way :lol: ) and not tiring at all (who gets tired by doing three or four backstrokes? - actually it is a nice way of resting the muscles you use for holding the bar).
I admit there is no great point in earning a few minutes of kiting during a session (or more if you try things and fall a lot) but I find it a fun and quick way of going to your board and that's all there is in it!


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 Post subject: Re: Double-arm backstroke: how to easily retrieve your board
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:59 am 
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Good tip :-)

it is just as easy to just do kind of regular strokes. Side upwind. easier to see too. If you have a long enough throw on your bar :-)

These techniques does not fit in all conditions and will definitely not work when you are ultra powered.


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 Post subject: Re: Double-arm backstroke: how to easily retrieve your board
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:00 am 
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Ned Divine wrote:
You can very easily swim upwind to your board by placing the kite at 12 and using the double-backstroke swim. All of my kites (foil, SLE, Cs) behave perfectly well for this in any strength of wind.


You then go on to say.....

Ned Divine wrote:
Ah, Windmaker, who said anything about begginers? :argue: A begginer couldn't use this technique because he/she would not let go of the bar under any circumstances!


But didn't you say all your kites behave perfectly for this in any wind.
So if that were really the case why should it be a problem for a beginner????

Also the claim of any strength of wind is a bit far fetched..... I'd like to see you swim against the type of chop you get on 30mph plus winds.

If you can get to the board quicker with back stroke you either belong on the Olympic swim team or need to learn how to body drag a bit better with a kite.

Also the idea of swimming back stroke without being able to see your board or some clump of kelp lurking 2 inches under the water does not seem like a good idea to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Double-arm backstroke: how to easily retrieve your board
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:27 am 
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thanks for the tip Ned!I will give it a try next time..


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 Post subject: Re: Double-arm backstroke: how to easily retrieve your board
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:51 am 
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I've done this on flat water with great success and in the ocean with less depending on the waves. Especially a good trick when your board is nearby.


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 Post subject: Re: Double-arm backstroke: how to easily retrieve your board
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:55 am 
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FredBGG wrote:
Ned Divine wrote:
You can very easily swim upwind to your board by placing the kite at 12 and using the double-backstroke swim. All of my kites (foil, SLE, Cs) behave perfectly well for this in any strength of wind.


You then go on to say.....

Ned Divine wrote:
Ah, Windmaker, who said anything about begginers? :argue: A begginer couldn't use this technique because he/she would not let go of the bar under any circumstances!


But didn't you say all your kites behave perfectly for this in any wind.
So if that were really the case why should it be a problem for a beginner????

Also the claim of any strength of wind is a bit far fetched..... I'd like to see you swim against the type of chop you get on 30mph plus winds.

If you can get to the board quicker with back stroke you either belong on the Olympic swim team or need to learn how to body drag a bit better with a kite.

Also the idea of swimming back stroke without being able to see your board or some clump of kelp lurking 2 inches under the water does not seem like a good idea to me.

Your first point I cannot understand. A begginer is not defined by the type of kite he/she uses so there is no controversy. A begginer is someone with limited experience who should not try funny stuff like this and stick to the upwind body drag with any type of kite. You seem a bit confused here. :allbegood:
(edit: reading again I understood what you mean - but still you are wrong, a kite behaves better when attached to an experienced rider because the corrections and trimming are far superior than for a begginer / also, if a begginer makes a mess out of the technique (the kite collapses or whatever) he is in trouble far more than an experienced rider. So, it's not the same at all.)

Your second point is absolutely correct. I was mislead by the fact that I haven't kited in very strong winds for a long time and kind of forgot they existed :oops: (winter is coming though! :lol: ). I never used this for very strong winds.

Your third point I think is totally wrong. Try for yourself, it is quicker than body-dragging and I have to make clear that I am way better in body-dragging than swimming, thank you very much. No Olympic medals whatsoever. :lol: You are very welcome for a body-drag race whenever! 8)

Your fourth point is correct but doesn't apply in all situations. If the sea is flat or choppy and there are no real waves then there is no risk. Underwater obstacles can indeed be a problem but this applies to any method, in fact if you body drag you spend more time swimming and the benefit of looking ahead (still not underneath you though) is diluted by the increased amount of time in the water.
Cheers! V


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 Post subject: Re: Double-arm backstroke: how to easily retrieve your board
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:02 am 
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tautologies wrote:
it is just as easy to just do kind of regular strokes. Side upwind. easier to see too. If you have a long enough throw on your bar :-)

Good tip, thanks! I will try next time! :thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Double-arm backstroke: how to easily retrieve your board
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:00 am 
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that s how i ,usually, retrieve my board. if i can t , i just bodydrag to the board.
now i used a lot of times PL kites...so it was obvious for me to use its autozenith and double arm backstroke to the board.


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