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 Post subject: Re: North Race LTD 2010 ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:56 am 
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cglazier wrote:
Samaculus wrote:
The sharper the edge (more angular) the sharper the rail. Is this considered the same as a hard rail? What is meant by soft rails? Rounded edges? Thanks for the info! :)


A hard rail is sharp and boxy and good for going upwind. A soft rail is rounded and better for turning.

I just got my North LTD but haven't had a chance to try it yet.

:wink: CG

make it fast before the ice sets in :D
Good luck with your new toy!!
Frank


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 Post subject: Re: North Race LTD 2010 ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:35 am 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
Just got the 2010 mounted with straps/fins now - it arrived monday but havent had time to get it / buy it, till now.

The finish and surface looks really awesome - and the design is so simple and sleek - no cut aways or funny edges or anything (which I hate), but a clean design.

Very appealing to the eye IMO, also the carbon strips, no matter if mostly for looks...

What stroke me, I did not expect, was that the 2010 is quite thin - the 2009 was relatively thick in fact.
Also, the edges are not as boxy and fully sharp like the 2009, but a bit tucked under on the 2010 and thinner rails also.

All in all should in theory give much better control, and still max tail planing surface and area for fast and easy tacking (as the nose is thin but wider) - and most of all, the ability to glide/float through long lulls (which the 2009 could not - only short lulls when you were planing).

But thats all theory - will see if the wind is okay tomorrow for the first testing and see how it holds up in real life up here on the other side of the world from you PaulOz and OzBungy (where the water runs the other way around in the zink) :thumb:

Kindly, Peter Frank


I'm surprised these boards are not more domed in the centre, since they are designed to be ridden fairly flat - just to make your ankles more comfortable. I'm also interested in what happens if the wind drops right off - what would they be like to paddle in, compared to a wide 6' kite surfboard?


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 Post subject: Re: North Race LTD 2010 ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:33 pm 
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cglazier wrote:
Samaculus wrote:
The sharper the edge (more angular) the sharper the rail. Is this considered the same as a hard rail? What is meant by soft rails? Rounded edges? Thanks for the info! :)


A hard rail is sharp and boxy and good for going upwind. A soft rail is rounded and better for turning.

I just got my North LTD but haven't had a chance to try it yet.

:wink: CG


Thanks, CG! :bye:

It looks like the North has softer rails near the nose, and then sharper farther back. Is this the case, and if it is, is it a gradual transition? Is this to make the prow more forgiving?

Also, in terms of tail shape, which do you guys think is better? A square tail (like the North 2009) was intended to just dump water and reduce drag. But then you have less square tails like the North 2010, and more dramatically the K-Race (even the Monaro), which seem to be trying to direct the waterflow in a beneficial way. Is it for speed? Better upwind?

Which do you think is more effective? It seems like there must be something to the redirction, since these companies are including non-square tails. :?:


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 Post subject: Re: North Race LTD 2010 ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:47 pm 
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Location: Portugal - Guincho; Rebel2012 5m, 9m & 2011 7m; Amundson 5'9&6'
Ready to rock! :jump:
Will post detailed pics asap as there are so few in the web...
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 Post subject: Re: North Race LTD 2010 ?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:01 pm 
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Location: Denmark
Just went out for 20 minutes here at my homespot, the board had to be "baptized" you know...

The worst possible conditions - light and gusty wind, more than a half meter chop, and it was very dark as it is almost winter and the sun went down half an hour before I went out :(

So a somewhat crappy session - but just to "break in" the board, so its wet, feel it, and so on.

The 10 feels much bigger than the 09 - but as I havent sailed the 09 in such huge bad chop, it can be difficult to say how far apart or close they are.

It does not take off as clean as the 09 when jumping - might be practice because of the front fins, dont know yet...
But landings seemed quite easy, was afraid the fins would make it difficult. Assume it is the lower angle of the fins for the 10 that makes this possible.
Feels a bit bigger when rotating of course, but still almost the same as it is quite light.

Turning and waves: It does not turn as easy as the 09, so you have to put the weight less on the front foot if riding waves for fun, otherwise it will track in a wide radius.
Cutback is a catastrophy, if you keep the front fins in the water - but if you just push the rear fins in the wave, so the front ones are lifted out - the 10 works just as good as the 09.
Why do I do this on a raceboard you might ask ? Well, I want to find the "borders" for a board, and what is possible/not possible - and besides it is fun to do it just "once in a while" if it has been light for a long time especially.

Carving/jibing - VERY different from the 09.
The 09 should be speeded through the turn, and no volume in the nose, so you had to change feet very precisely, and also keep good entry speed in order to keep the planing.
With the 10 you can glide around, and just change feet whenever you want to - because of the size/width - very stable so to speak - a bit like the wide windsurfers.
Doing planing jibes is extremely easy, but maybe because you can glide with much lower speed.
So apart from getting used to more foot pressure because of the width - it is really easy to jibe on this one.
Although - feels like it is more difficult to ride with as much speed as the 09 at first ?

Tacking is a breeze of course - but we knew that in advance.

Upwind - dont know because of the conditions - but as the Oz'es said, it can be ridden very flat if you want to (or edged if you want to).
Upwind angle and low wind ability was impossible to extract from today :-?

Downwind though - felt quite easy for me on the 10 even in these conditions, because the fins are not as angled as the 09 maybe ?

I have an idea that it performs best in more flat water, because of the planing surface/area - whereas the 09 was really good in chop.

Riding without ANY pull from the kite, just standing on the board flying the kite around without pull, in lulls, is easy too on the 10. Was impossible on the 09 which would sink.
So you would be able to ride far even if the wind dies - and if the kite goes down, packing down and selfrescuing should not be hard - but havent tried it.

Generally as said - the 10 feels a lot bigger than the 09, and not as light/fast in the same way.
Could also be the fins, so will try to change fins later on, to see how much the fins can change, and how much is in the board - just for finding the "borders" again :thumb:

Less freeride with the 10, as the 09 were. Less wave ability too.
But a lot more ease in lulls, and tacking is sweet now.

Just first experiences on an afternoon where it was dark and I could not see s... - so dont take it for much.

Will write later when I get more watertime on the board 8)

Kindly, Peter Frank


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 Post subject: Re: North Race LTD 2010 ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:08 am 
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Location: Portugal - Guincho; Rebel2012 5m, 9m & 2011 7m; Amundson 5'9&6'
Some first impressions on the living room:
Rails are soft, tucked-in along the whole board
Fins are smaller than i would expect (i know a bigger set is available)
Fins are not tight in the box as windsurf fins, they fit tight when you tight them up
Fins are more wide than deep so, with this set it looks designed to ride with some edging
Bottom is deep single concave that flats at the tail
Straps are top comfort
As my kids say, it really looks like a ironing board!

I would say it looks like a all-conditions board: big enough for lightwind and forgiving options for when the going gets tough.

Just for curiosity, summing up all four fin lengths gives 62cm... almost the 70cm of my formula board...

Peter, by the looks, using this board to surf is really pushing things to the limit...


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 Post subject: Re: North Race LTD 2010 ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:08 am 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hello All,

Just some more impressions from me after some more time on this board.

1.. These fins could be very dangerous in some conditions.
Both OzBungy and myself are wearing minor cuts.
Ozbungy just from carrying to the water. Me, the event was a bit more complex, but I have bruised ribs and minor cut from the fins. You don't wont to fall on these daggers. I know we have dealt with huge fins on Windsurfers for years but this is different. After 25 yrs windsurfing only my feet touched the fin..

2. I am going downwind somewhat better with Peters advise,, weight on back foot much more..
Still skitty but I feel now its more my skill (lack of) and the different technique that is the issue.

Peter, you mentioned Tacking (as opposed to Gybing),, are you actually doing this?? What is the technique.??

Cheers
Pauloz


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 Post subject: Re: North Race LTD 2010 ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:22 am 
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Peter Frank,

Maybe try the 1O without the front fins, with more wind, and with the front fins with less wind?
Frank


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 Post subject: Re: North Race LTD 2010 ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Location: Denmark
YES - out one more time today, in even worse conditions, but before it got dark (after work).

The upwind angle is definitely better than the 2009, so even in the worst chop/wave conditions, I could go almost 30 degree upwind according to my GPS.

And knowing that smaller chop waves (today it was almost 1 meter chop) and flat water increases the upwind angle and speed by a huge margin, this looks really promising :thumb:

I still dont know ANYTHING about the low end, which is the reason I got the board... Have to wait till a really light wind day with stable wind... But it should be at least the same or more likely somewhat better than the 2009.

But, going downwind with speed today was just as easy as yesterday 8)

Still felt a bit "big/stiff" like I wrote yesterday.

Out today, in a bit more stable wind, but still mega chop and waves because of A LOT of wind further out, which will arrive tonight and tomorrow.

Worked okay and good upwind angle and float, but as said, more stiff than the 2009.

I removed the front fins (had that in mind since yesterday in fact, just like Frank had been thinking too).

And now the board works more like the 2009, just BETTER !

Feels light, easy to ride, and you can jibe easy, and even spray waves if you want - everything works even better than the 2009 I would say.

Jumping and rotating and landing is easier too - and I assume that the low end is still better than the 2009 - although I havent tested it yet....

I did not cover the fin boxes - just removed the front fins in a few seconds (good thing about the mini power box - by far the fastest to change fins on this system) - but seemed to work without spray or drag I could feel.

And the footstrap position was still "relaxing" and good.

Going downwind with speed was now even easier and in control :D

So right now it seems to be a "3 in 1" board.

With the standard fins, a freeride raceboard for extreme performance, or high wind competition.
Without the front fins, a freeride raceboard with FUN as the main issue.
With even bigger fins, a competition raceboard even in light wind.

Right now REALLY happy with this board :thumb:

Just miss to test the low end, but it should be better than the 09 8)

I am really happy right now, as everything is possible from now on :naughty:

Kindly, Peter Frank


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 Post subject: Re: North Race LTD 2010 ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:04 pm 
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Peter Frank,

Sounds very promising :thumb: , is there no need to have double footstraps, at the rear end
to keep the board flat?
Frank


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