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 Post subject: Re: Foil kite vs. inflatable kite
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 65
Quick note to Pump Me Up. Could you please stop using my post of an accident at poole, to say how bad foils are. The kite wasn't at fault. It was very sadly pilot error that resulted in the accident.
Enought now.


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 Post subject: Re: Foil kite vs. inflatable kite
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:49 am
Posts: 3573
Location: Japan
My 15m Phantom out-turns my Airush Lift 16m, from the same year, by a noticeable margin.
Last time I took the Lift out, it Hindenburged on me 4 times till I threw a tantrum and kicked it all the way back to the launch area :evil:
Broke my wrist flying the Phantom - total rider error and not a touch of bad luck - but even then, it only hit the ground when I popped the safety.

I'd love a PL Charger but I don't want to spend that much money on a new kite that I'm only going to crash and poke holes in :D I'll stick with my used arcs ...


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 Post subject: Re: Foil kite vs. inflatable kite
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:39 am
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The speed3 15m turns faster then my contra3 14m bow. The reason you may think they turn slower then a bow kit may be that they will stay in the air down to 4 knots. When the wind gets that low they do start to turn slower. It drifts with you down wind just fine but yes you do have to work the kite to keep it at the center of the power zone as it moves to the edge quite quick.


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 Post subject: Re: Foil kite vs. inflatable kite
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 6:56 am
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Location: Kailua, Hawaii, currently riding EH and OR kites (2013 Razor rocks!)
I think voodoospirit probably nailed it. My impression of foils being slow is most likely from my only seen large ones (17 - 19) and older models. Certainly, even large LEI kites would appear really slow to turn.

Let's see some videos of foils in the waves! That refusal to Hindenburg sounds like it would be a good thing in the waves.


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 Post subject: Re: Foil kite vs. inflatable kite
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:26 pm 
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Location: Malibu
Windrider wrote:
Let's see some videos of foils in the waves! That refusal to Hindenburg sounds like it would be a good thing in the waves.


Here's a video of the Pulse 2 in the waves...



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 Post subject: Re: Foil kite vs. inflatable kite
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:32 pm
Posts: 115
whats "hindenburging" exactly?

by the way, the new peter lynn charger promises better lowend also! lighter foil and more pressure resulting in less wobbeling for better lowend.

and the charger in 15 sqm was reported to turn faster than a 12 sqm psycho IV ! (dunno if this is true, we have to wait for user reviews!)


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 Post subject: Re: Foil kite vs. inflatable kite
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2007 9:33 pm
Posts: 910
Location: europe
hindenburg...hum doesn t exist with PL kite, i think ... dunno how to explain you. the PL variation is when the wind is below the limit of flight of the kite, the kite will drop as a flag to the ground??
LEI style: it s when the leading edge of a kite fall directly to the ground, the air doesn t handle the kite anymore...
a LEI user might explain better?, i dunno... like when the kite fall like a dead leaf because the line are too slack? or when the wind is low....

PL kite will drift faster than the rider and if the lines comes too slack , the kite will flatten (up to the point to be really flat) to get more air so it can drift faster and regain its C-shape...if the wind is low, it might 'hindenburg" if u r on a hardpack snow (u get higher speed than the kite/wind) or on a fast moving surface (Mtb on sand or buggy), on water, not a chance to get that sad story....


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 Post subject: Re: Foil kite vs. inflatable kite
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:31 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:48 pm
Posts: 1230
I've seen a couple PL kites in action a quite a few times and they work great. If you can get some 2nd hand ones grab them, new ones are expensive. They're good kites. Auto Zenith is awesome, especially if you're learning, allows time to get your feet in the board when water starting. They don't have the range of SLE's. To me they'd be a lot easier to repair than tube kites, just put them thru a sewing machine, nylon canopy is easy enough to sew where as fixing a bladder is PIA.

Foils are great on snow but then so are tube kites.

Foils aren't as bad as some people make them out to be.


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 Post subject: Re: Foil kite vs. inflatable kite
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:49 am
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Location: Japan
Hindenburging to me is ... the kite is near the zenith, there's a drop in the wind and it just falls straight down out of the sky - nothing you can do to recover it - all the lines are slack and cos it's a heavy LEI, they go straight down like a ton of bricks. I've only seen it happen with C-kites though ...

Arcs will luff a little, especially if they're not full, but give them a tug on the center lines and they recover easily.


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 Post subject: Re: Foil kite vs. inflatable kite
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:37 am 
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Location: Kailua, Hawaii, currently riding EH and OR kites (2013 Razor rocks!)
In wave riding, Hindenburg is when you turn towards the kite while on the wave, and it doesn't drift back fast enough, causing the lines to go slack, or for you to get under the kite... and the ktie falls out of the sky like a leaf from a tree. Your only hope of recovery is to turn away from the kite and try to take up the slack in the lines before it hits the water.

Worst case scenario is that the kite unexpectedly bursts into a ball of flame which totally consumes it and sometime triggers spontaneous human combustion from the frustration of having your kite down in the middle of a good set.

P.S.: This generally happens to less experienced wave kiters who don't always steer the kite correctly while on the wave because they were too caught up in the fun of going down the face and doing a bottom turn with cutback off the lip.... but, HEY!, we all gotta start somewhere.


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